"Painting over white primer" Topic

I've seen a technique where acrylics are watered down and then applied over white primed figs.

My question is what to do about thin belts across chests, belts around waste, etc. Do you use a regular application of paint leaving only the larger areas with the wash look? This question would also apply to the face and hairline. I could go back and black line everything…Aack!! As well, how do I avoid bleeding colors? Should I start with the lighter colors first? Any help would be awesome!!!

I have NEVER used black prime on figures. Well, hardly ever.

When specialized acrylics were intrduced by Uncle Duke if Heritage way back in the last Milennium, his technique used white primer. ("NO, young man! This is NOT just gesso!")

I have used his method ever since, but with modifications. My methd is more of a "wet brush" method than anything else.
I should point out that Heitage paints were developed to use the "stain" method, and it doesn't work with all acrylics. Some GW paints, yes. Most Vallejo paints, no.

It can be controlled rather easily with practice.

I usually start with GW Dark Flesh, 50:50 with water on the flesh, and when dry. Drybrush Ceramcote Medium flesh.
Then work your way outward. By the end, when doing belts and straps, you are only wetting the brush enough to keep the paint from blobbing.

It should be noted that this method is NOT for the guys who can finish 10 figures in a night, from start to finish.
This is most definitely for the "If it's Tuesday, it is Dark Blue night!" guys who point regiments and take days (or weeks) doing it.
It takes a while for the paint to dry between coats.

In my humble opinion, "triads" are a rather expensive way to duplicate the natural shading you can get with "wet brush" on white prime. Badly done, both methods can give truly hideous results.

I know a local gamer who uses that technique, but have been out of touch with him for a while.

I am simply STUNNED that some people exclusively use black primer. I almost always get horrible results with it.
The only exception is tanks and knights.

John – FYI it makes things stand out more "easier to see"
and white doesn't do this as good Try it and you will see
the deference if U have not already…

Regards

James

It is important to get good coverage with your primer. Belts can be painted after the uniform is dry--using light base colors and dark black or brown inks.

I almost always use black primer. Only on very rare occasions will we use white.

I'm with John. White primer and "stain painting". And yep, I remember Uncle Duke.

I have been stain painting for 20 years now. My technique has a little variant though: Black primer, dry brush white all over the figure (looks like a ghost), then stain paint. You get the best of both worlds in my mind. Seems to have a little more depth to it while not having to go into all the layers:

What this discussion REALLY means is that do what works best for YOU.
I have had horrible results with black primer, and good with white.
I will happily experiment, but I know what I do best.

I once read a commentary in a miniatures glossy magazine about a pint job, and the idiot graded a paint job downward based on the technique he used. The figures looked GREAT, but the painter did not use black primer and triads, so he got a bad review. Moron.

Thanks to all who replied… I've been using black primer now for about 5 years. It has more than doubled my output of figures. Yet the first miniatures I ever fell in love with was a collection of 15mm Frei Korp ACW with white primer and 'wet-brushed' with Polly's acrylics. Now that I have the experience and stamina to complete larger projects, I want to recreate 'the look' of what lured me in 20 years ago. I really do think the white primer, wet brush look is superior. I hope to master it….

I have been playing around with white priming again and I do a brown wash after that then everything but black boots and other kit are progressive washes. I really like the technique but it is not for mass production of Armies.

VR
James Mattes

Have also seen white primer with a heavy black wash. If it is liquid enough, and dark enough the wash goes into the folds great. Saves on having to paint over black areas more than once to get bright highlights. The black primer with white dry brushing technique (I actually use a bit wetter dry brush than most with a light touch) works well too.

I am trying two methods lately, one is back to the basic white primer with block painting and coming back with Magic Wash. The other is more like James but using a dark brown undercoat instead. Obviously some colors look better with a black primer but I am finding that black primer is a bit too stark with whites, yellows and other such very bright colors. I also find that black primered figures tend to dull bright colors over time. I paint 15mm for the most part. Contrast is good but black just doesn't work best all the time.

Bryan, your stuff looks great!

My basic rule is:

Black Primer is used when using dark colors and a darker overall end result is desired.

White Primer is used when painting lighter colors and/or a brighter overall end result is desired.

Gray primer works well with both.

I agree.

I switched to light grey a year ago then wash with black magic wash to allow the details to jump out.

I prime white, use watered down colours so the white lightens the high areas, then army painter them to create the shadows. Quick and it works.

Jaz
Http://revolutionaryroads.com – GLORY! – A new ACW ruleset coming soon.

I use the same method as Fat Wally now , get things painted a lot quicker especially 6 and 10mm

White allows stain painting and give bright colours, but any bits you miss stand out.
Black can give a dark look and the effect is very harsh.
Personally I prefer a mid-brown primer – any missed bits look like wood or leather, and other colours go on well over it.

I use different colors for different scales. Lately it's been black for 15mm and 28mm I'm looking to get done quickly. Grey for most 28mm and white for 28mm that have large areas of white ( British AWI ). I'm also using white on 40mm for that Toy soldier look. Overall I prefer grey.

Blimey – always contentious this one !
I use both methods depending how quick I need to be or how lazy I'm feeling. In smaller scales a squirt of black is great way to start Napoleonics for example – no need to paint shakos, pouches bayonet scabbards or boots – awesome nearly finished already – I use brown with ancients for the same reason. However white undercoat definately produces a clearer brighter result and I tend to use it when feeling less lazy !

I like the way that "some" have assumed that I have not tried black primer, and that it is only pure ignorance and cussedness that keeps me from embracing the Dark Side.
It does not work for ME. That is all. God bless you if you can make it work.

For those, I suggest that you try white primer. "Oh, no, OFM! That would be WRONG!"

I've been in the black undercoat camp for the last 15 years. I just started some FIW French infantry and went with a white base coat and washes or thin paint. What I found is that on any given figure I have tine pure white spots where the wash/paint didn't cover. It is normally near a crease or a belt and I have a hell of a time trying to fix it without messing something else up. I'm getting it to work, but for the most part I'll stick with black undercoats and block painting.

I pretty much always white prime, particularly for "colorful" periods like Napoleonics. It makes the colors much brighter than black-primed figures, which look dull and lusterless in comparison. The only figures I black prime are 15mm WW2 infantry, since the colors are all pretty dull anyway, and the black lines between details show where one piece of kit ends and another begins.

These days I stain paint the larger areas, block paint the details (straps, piping, etc.), then hit the whole figure with a wash of floor wax colored with Payne's Grey. Payne's Grey is a very dark blue-grey, which doesn't make the figure look dirty like a black wash would. I then hit the whole figure with Floquil Figure Flat (the floor wax makes the figures glossy), and then go back and highlight the metals (like the gun barrel and bayonet) to make them look shiny again.

I used black undercoat for 6 and 10 mm and white undercoat for 15 and 28 mm. Now I only use Vallejo grey undercoat for everything.
I painted this lady with grey undercoat:

Mikeygees, I'm the guy that painted those ACW figures. I use krylon white primer and touch up with Ceramcoat white. For Union coats I mix Americana midnight blue 2 to 1 with water+a drop of dish soap. Slop over the whole coat belts and all. When dry, go back and shade the creases with full or nearly full strength midnight blue. Belt, etc are painted with nearly full strength black. Smart phones are great but make it hard to type detailed instructions. Hope this helped a little.

I thought so… I saw them on David's blog. I think it was your 15's that I remember fondly as well.

I use black for knights.
Grey for most everything else.

I use the cheap Walmart stuff and they never have the white primer. So, I stick with the grey. Almost looks white and helps me catch spots I missed.

All in what you are comfortable with.

I prefer white primer myself. I use black primer on occasion, but I get better results with white primer.

Everything I paint is over white primer. I could write a lot about why I choose this but ultimately I can achieve far better results over white than I can black. This often includes building up tone with very thin paint. YMMV.

As said above, it's what works for you. In my experience, black primer dusted with white primer works best.

I tried both black and white primers and found the dual primer method to be the 'best'. Especially since now I can keep the number of layers lower due to the difference primer tone.

The question of primers and techniques is what works best for you. I use both black and white primer. It depends on what I am painting and the vision of the final product I have in my head.

My personal paint kit contains a bit of everything. My "primary" paints are Vallejo Game and Model Color BUT -- I have Reaper in there, P3, some GW, and some artist acrylics. I have craft paints for terrain pieces. I think most of us who do a lot of painting have our "favorites" which come from all over the place.

My technique has a little variant though: Black primer, dry brush white all over the figure (looks like a ghost), then stain paint.- Bryan Stroup

+1 for all my dark and medium tone colors. :)

Works fantastic in combination with inks and washes.

I'm in the white primer camp. I have tried black and grey but as I paint almost nothing but 6mm I need a primer that doesn't dull the colour. What I do that's a little different is I wash over the primer with a thin wash of Windsor & Newton peat brown ink. This goes into the folds and recesses and starts the shading process. I then block paint using thinned acrylics to allow the light and dark areas in the priming to come through. Works for me on small scale stuff.

My go to primer defaults to black, just easier to see detail in my opinion. Having said that, I've done an entire army with a Red primer that turned out fantastic and I've seen one where a Brown primer was used that again came out stunning. I think the most important thing is knowing what the endstate you have in mind is going to be.

I'm with John OFM here.
By using white primer and washes of colour rather than solid paint, you allow the figure to do a lot of the work for you. If I prime black I dry-brush white before I add any colour. Again you can use washes with this method. Once the main colours are done you can add belts etc as normal.
I've also recently discovered transparent, water based glass paints which are brilliant for shading when used thinned down. They do come out gloss so deep brown is great for cannon barrels.
Any colour can be used as a primer, though I wish someone brilliant who uses black as a matter of course could give us a master-class on how to avoid ending up with a muddy coloured mess.

Simon MacDowell on his Legio site has a good white primer method which I'm currently using…
link

Hobhood4, that's a good simple technique. I find something like the Vallejo "transparent" colours or the air brush colours work well
Mserafin. Paynes grey is brilliant! I use it a lot instead of black -shakos, plumes, black uniforms, horses. I use Windsor Newton. For horses I water it down to a point where it turns out a definite dark grey rather than black and slop it all over the horse. Once it's dry I wash it all over with the glass paint I'm so keen on (again watered down) then a drybrush of dark or mid grey with a very soft brush before adding any white markings etc.

Nice find! I'll try his method sometime.

Sites about to close for maintenance, from here onwards are some experiments with washes over white primer, mostly acw.
link
regards
dave

I'm with the OFM here also. Always white except for armour like on my Sassanid's.

I spray paint black primer and after the mini is completely covered do a quick light top spray of white. It gives the figure shading in the crevices and lighter colors on the top areas.

All priming techniques and colours have their merits and limitations.
Grey primer is probably the best single colour for showing detail as well as any missed flash or mould lines.
Black is for me, the most forgiving when painting highly intricate detailed figures, unless you are going to give the finished article a lining wash anyway.
The only reason I would ever use a white primer is for the purpose explained originally, that is, for painting with what amount to glazes rather than opaque layers of paint.
Black, dry-brushed with white or White washed with black are good compromises for showing detail and in effect are both ways of pre-highlighting if going down the 'Glaze' route.