"Shipreck! Modern Submarine Actions PLAN vs USN" Topic

Howdie.

Just a quick write up for some simple sub vs surface ship actions, us learning new rules…

link

Thanks!

Chalfant

Very nice report.

Each game I see make me more intrested in Shipwreck.

Looks nice. What brand of miniatures are they?

NavWar.

The submarine rules are the main part of Shipwreck that I didn't like. While they are easy, they are too abstract and generic for my taste. It is basically a a die roll off with very little decisions by either side.

Hopefully, if (when) Shipwreck II ever comes out the submarine rules will be revised.

Liked the report a lot. I am busy building up my Navwar fleets for Shipwreck, and this gives me a good background on how the game plays out. Now I just need to work out some scenarios… I am thinking late Cold War gone hot around Norway for Brits & Soviets.

The submarine rules are the main part of Shipwreck that I didn't like. While they are easy, they are too abstract and generic for my taste. It is basically a a die roll off with very little decisions by either side.

I felt this way about the entire game. Didn't seem to be much to do other than roll dice and hope for the best (i.e. maneuver doesn't matter).

Now this may be the nature of Modern Naval Combat, not a criticism of the rules.

As a guy who played waaaaaay too much computer _Harpoon_ back in the day, I have to say most ASW operations are incredibly boring: helos shuttle back forth dropping sonobouys, ASW craft sprint/drift around until you get a contact. I routinely jacked up the time scale (a nice feature of Harpoon) until I got a passive sonar contact -- or more often, until fish were in the water!

Now, the opposite is the case if you're playing the sub, but it doesn't seem like the best "fit" for a 2 player game without a referee.

Even in Harpoon, maneuvering doesn't matter much, especially against inbound SSMs, not that you can do that much with them flying in so quickly.

About the best you can hope for is to unmask your AA weapons, and/or turn your vessel to minimize the effect of the hits as much as possible. That usually means turning stern on into the missile attack, and hoping your helo hangar, or other superstructure takes the hit.

The pre-battle maneuvering is more important, but depending upon the situation/scenario, you may or may not get to play that out as you desire.

Yes, I've come to the conclusion that an operational scale modern naval game would involve the players making consequential decisions far more than the existing tactical scale rulesets.

But operational level doesn't lend itself to miniatures, so you're a bit stuck.

I have been thinking whether a ruleset that combined the two somehow would be one answer – an operational-level module that then uses the tactical-level module to resolve contacts. The tactical module could be as abstract as Shipwreck because lots of the fun 'command decisions' would be made in the operational module.

I found ASW operations in CIC (Mal Wright's modern GQ variant) to be pretty tense. Even when you "know" the position of the enemy boat you may not easily detect it. I solo-played a scenario in which a Kidd-class DDG had to engage a North Korean Whiskey directly because the helicopter on station was Winchester, and the Kidd was the nearest platform. Even a mediocre diesel boat, driven aggressively, can be a handful. They got the sub, but it could have gone differently.