"Post SELWG blues" Topic

I don't know if I have a rose tinted spectacles view of SELWG, but this year's event seemed really down beat. There were a few SF games, but nothing that made me think 'I'm going to try that'. There was a 'Shaun of the Dead' game which I've seen run before and a 'War of the Worlds' game, but as I don't play VSF it was not for me.

I spent most of my cash at the Ground Zero Games stall and bought some Coppelstone Casting figures. For the first time ever I came home with cash. This has never happend before!

GZG is always a good place to part with cash!

I did not make SELWG this year, nor have I gone the last few years. I tend to just do SALUTE every year and blow my cash in one day at that event.

It is difficult for any of the other shows to come up to SALUTE's standard.

I also thought this year’s SELWG was a bit flat. Too few participation games, too many self-absorbed demonstrations. Some ranges I wanted to see were absent (Heresy, Spyglass, Hasslefree, nobody seemed to be carrying Reaper, couldn’t see the Perrys’ stuff). On the up-side, the Assault Group samurai are even better in the metal to online.

Someone suggested to me that with the growth of web sales, traders are backing that channel rather than shows – any comment from traders on this? Have the stall prices grown too far? It would be an awful loss if some of the smaller shows were to fold…

well we had a great SELWG. Takings were significantly up on last year, and there was a steady flow of customers all day.

Thanks to all who visited the stand

Steve @ brigade models

Looking back, I was unfair with the 'self-absorbed' shot above. Most demo games were very friendly. My comment was coloured by a single game (no names) where my younger son (13) was brushed aside as a nuisance when I thought his questions were perfectly good. So - grumpy father speaking, please withdraw the comment.

Cheers, Colin

I was able to get the UNSC marines from GZG that I'd planned to get, so the whole thing wasn't a total wash out. They also had some 'Eggs on legs' power armoured figs that I got to use as heavy support for the UNSCs. The only disappionment about that is the 'Eggs on legs' have been a bad seller and are now to be discontinued.

I considered getting their new 'Space Rebels' which are very Star Wars, but that's for another time.

There was a GW game with Tyranids raiding a research base to kill a certain scientist, I might have a go at that one but with different aliens (I'm not all that on Tyranids). Thinking about it I could use the Kra'Vak as the aliens and give my UNSC thier first mission.

Hi

Well after four pretty good SELWGs we had to have a bad one sooner or later - yesterday was it! Always go to shows with a worst-case figure in mind and we were a few hundred below that! Added to which I damaged the hire van and have a GBP 200 excess on the insurance for that!

Question was asked about the internet. Our balance has shifted quite dramatically this year to the point where 80% of our sales come of the website and that is with 'slow' buying from US customers because of the poor exchange rate. If and when money gets back to normal, that could go to 90:10? I must have compared notes with half a dozen other traders yesterday and we are all cutting back on shows next year. Not just the smaller ones. SELWG regulars will have noticed the absence of Irregular Miniatures yesterday. Some of the bigger shows are getting to be too costly in respect of the returns and profits and in addition the effort needed to cover a wide range of products for the chance of one-day speculative sales. With the internet you know what the customer wants. I am supporting COGs in Chesterfield in three weeks time - a smaller show. It will be far more profitable, with far less effort, than this years SELWG. Wouldn't drop a show on the strength of one poor peformance though.

Cheers
Mike

Mike, don't expect the US dollar to strengthen any time soon. Indeed I expect it to worsen against the Euro and Sterling in the medium term too.

I too felt that the whole thing was flat. I was disappointed too to find that a Hovels building I wanted was out of stock and was lucky to get the last of another structure from Shellhole Scenics. That AND the selection of plastic kits around the place was rather disappointing. Oh well, perhaps I'll have to go to Salute next year after all.

We had a great show, lots of customers, lots to see and I though a very good range of demo games.

This is interesting. I have a show agent at present and have secured another for next year to carry the Mongrel range. However, after talking to another one man band business, who does the show circuit in the U.K. I was contemplating taking to the road myself and got as far as pricing up racks, display cabinets with rotating shelves, banners, etc etc . . BUT, both of my good friends who will carry my stuff next year have said they are cutting down on shows because it just isn't profitable at about 70% of them and costs keep rising, which is not matched by show sales.

One of them also has a shop and an internet site which he says accounts for the majority of his sales anyway and says he is going to concentrate more on the shop and internet, with shows coming third in the priority list.He has been a major trader at most of the shows in the U'K. for a number of years.

This coincides with my own experiences of shows appearing to be pretty flat with no "buzz" this year, Derby being a prime example. So it does appear to look like the internet is the way forward ?

Frank

Personally I thought this was the best SELWG I have been to and the best show overall of this year. Certainly the quakity of the games was far better than I have seen previously and included probably the two best games I have ever seen at a show.

I guess you can't please everyone all of the time, particularly as we have such a diverse hobby but my view is that SELWG just keeps getting better and better.

Tricks

I wasn't particulary impressed by yesterdays show. Didn't see anything I haven't done before...

All I brought were some paints... or and a Burger!

I must say though that it was still good to go. It is always worth having a look around and seeing all the minis and games that I've read about on the net!

Gav

Personally I really enjoyed the show. I agree with Tricks, SELWG does seem to be getting better.

I talked a great deal to friends I met up with, made a couple of new ones, spent too much money; though grabbed some really nice bargains and made £45 on the B&B.

I thought the games were really very good. A couple were truly outstanding. Spent a good four hours there and could've spent another couple.

I think how good shows are depends upon what 'floats your boat'. Personally WW2 does it for me and there was a lot of WW2 orientated stuff there. I don't go to take part in games but to stock up on eye candy and be enthused.

I buy occasionally from the internet but far more at shows where I can chat to traders and see what's about, in the flesh, so to speak. I've been to five Southern UK shows this year and spent around £1000 so far! Not a great amount, grantedbut bread and butter to some.

Well done organisers

A mixed show - some amazing (really) buys on the bring and buy stall, some minis I had been after for a long while finally hunted down.

However - the displays / games just didn't seem to have that certain 'something' this year. My prefered period is loosely horse and musket, more accurately described as Marlborough to Moltke in 25mm. 25mm is THE perfect scale to show off the intricate uniforms of the time. NOTHING between 1680 to 1870!!!

How many WWII games?

I wasn't there, but if it helps to comfort A Badger I got two Marlburian armies from Pendraken. Granted they are only 10mm, but it should look good when fully painted.

I feel that I should put my head above the parapit and admit that it was I who was talking to Wulfric with regard to the show vs internet subject.

It was interesting comparing notes after my experience of Derby and his of SELWG.

It would be a major shame to lose the ability to shop in the flesh at shows - I had very good/enjoyable days at both WMMS and Salute this year, and I'm not too happy with a set of figs I've just received which looked fine on the website but are much less impressive "in the metal"

However, I fully understand the commercial pressures involved with many traders. For such a niche hobby, the show season is both long and diverse in location.

I for one predict that a few years down the line, we could be looking at several "uber" shows the likes of Salute, Triples and Partisan, with many smaller one's disappearing altogether - the joy of the market economy.

It would be a shame, as the best part of the Derby show for me was not the games, or the traders, but rather the chance to renew old friendships face-to-face, without all this e-mail nonsense.

After all, isn't the thing that seperates us from computer strategy games is that we actually still relate to other real people when we play?

(lights blue touch paper and runs away...very fast)

Neil

Badger, there was 25mm AWI in the basement... Eutaw Springs using British Grenadier rules.

Corrected I stand. SELWG is one of the three shows I attend every year - the others are Salute and Broadsword. Each has good and bad bits & I will continue to attend all three. I also buy lots over the internet. I sincerely hope that all the shows continue, as I believe this really is a golden age for all types of gaming.

I agree with the sceptics. A long-time SELWG-goer, I left disappointed (and with cash) this Sunday. I think it lacked 'buzz' - fewer people than usual, and less interesting new stuff for sale. The demo games were solid - I liked the WW2 emphasis. Part of my disappointment may be (a) for the first time I'd been to Colours at Reading a few weeks before, which I'd strongly recommend - in particular for the dangerously large number of great bookstalls who never make it to the London shows, and (b) unusally, I'd gone on my own and didn't really get chatting to anyone

It's amazing how people's perceptions vary. I thought SELWG this year was one of the better ones of recent years. I'm a closet WW2 gamer when time permits and thought that some of the demos were excellent - any game featuring a Polish armoured train gets my vote. I also came across a couple of traders new to me so I took home catalogues to peruse later. And as Steve said above, we had a good day on the stand with a steady stream of punters.

As for show-vs-website sales, I've just checked my figures and we take roughly 1/6th of our income from shows (only four so far this year), 1/7th from conventional mail order and the rest comes in via the website. In addition, we always notice a jump in mail order and internet sales immediately after a show from people that have seen us at an event but have run out of money or are waiting for the next payday. Shows are about more than just the income from the day - in the past I've spoken to another trader who maintained that he was happy just to break even at a show as long as he gave away plenty of catalogues.

Tony @ Brigade Models

Fair enough Tony and I appreciate the bit about customer face to face contact, which is very important too. It's a balancing act between the benefits of chatting with the customers and the economics I guess?

Cheers

Frank

I like to be able to see what I'm buying, though I do HATE being stuck behind other people at the stall.

At least at the GZG stall I don't get asked if I play their game, or I be asked what I want it for. What the @*!!" do you think I want it for? (Relates to a particularily annoying encounter in a GW shop).

It would be a really great shame and a loss to the hobby if traders started pulling out of shows. Personally, after a bad experience on Ebay I will no longer ever pay online, and I plan to visit more shows next year. I like the human touch, and guys like Mike from Ainsty, Scheltrum and Magister Militum make shows worth going to for me. (Although I boycott Dixon Miniatures, as they insulted me at my very first Salute)

This was my first visit to SELWG and i'd definately go again. I've been to a few shows this year including SALUTE and this one stood out as being quite friendly and varied in content. Next year i'll probably limit myself to just two shows (cash'll be tight next year - new baby/wargamer-in-the-making due in Feb) and it'll be SALUTE and SELWG for sure. I primarily attend these events to stock up on models, paints scenery because i don't have a good 'local' store in my area. If traders started pulling out it would seriously dent my enjoyment of the show and undemine my main reason for attending. I hope that doesn't happen and, for now, i intend on going to SELWG next year.

@ Pointy -

IIRC, the GZG eggs-on-legs power armour figures are Eureka models made under license here by GZG. So you might still be able to get them direct from Oz.