"GoT Does Martin kill off character then bring them back?" Topic

I could have sworn on one of these threads that someone stated that Martin had the annoying habit of [apparently] killing off characters then later bringing them back.

I mentioned this to a friend wh has read the books and he replied that he didn't think this was the case.

So, are there examples of this, or is it all me misremembering a bit of some old thread?

Hmm, good question. The three cases of 'he's dead, but wait, not really!' I can think of off hand were all deliberate deceptions on the part of one character or another.

-Will

Non-SPOILER, but Ser Beric Dondarion is one.
This was in the middle of Season 3.

SPOILER discussion would bring up a few more.

Ask Dear Editor to put the word SPOILER in the title, and we can begin.
One is pure "back from the dead" and another is speculation on a character who may or may not show up in episode 10, but if he is coming in, this would be the time.

Yes.

and another is speculation on a character who may or may not show up in episode 10, but if he is coming in, this would be the time.

I dont remember this one….

There's no need for to put "Spoiler" in the title. The subject already indicates that there will be spoilers. And I'm referring to the books here not the TV shows.

Ser Beric Dondarion is the resurrected guy(?) He doesn't count b/c he was resurrected. So that is explained. Or isn't it actually explained? I've heard that his thread is quite interesting but under-utilized.

I mean are there any characters who die and then just show up later.

I don't remember this one….

Coldhands.
His identity is speculation worthy, some of which include formerly dead or thought to be dead people.
He SHOULD meet Sam and Gilly before they get to Castle Black and SHOULD also meet Bran and the Reeds on the other side.

OK, altfritz. I will take your dispensation as given.

Coldhands could be Benjen Stark. He appears to be an "Other", but greets Sam as "Brother". He aids Bran and Sam both.

Google "Lady Stoneheart" if you want a true SPOILER. The North remembers. Recent (very recent!) death.

And then Brienne has a cliffhanger episode in later books. That may or not be a death.

The description Ser Beric Dondarion in the books left me with the impression that his 'alive after death' state wasn't all that alive. Sure, he's up walking around and talking but there was something unnatural about it even when you allow for dragons and those shade/demon/things that the Red Preistess makes.

Coldhands and Lady Stoneheart seemed more like undead to me.

Book 5 has a few characters who may not make it to TV, who are "secret identity" or "disguised dead people".
Alleras the Sphinx is one.
Also at Oldtown is Pate who may or not be Jaqun Hghar. (I can't be bothered to look up the correct spelling of Scrabble names.) Pate is killed at the very beginning, and then has a riole at the very end.
Gregor Clegane has a satisfying death in Book 4. Or, does he?

So, yes. Martin does think he is re-writing Holinshed's Chronicles, but with zombies.

I think you have to consider the Princess Bride definition of death, as in mostly but not completely dead, for Dondarian and Stoneheart.

Thus the issue may be did they come back or simply never completely leave?

Back to the original question, I think the vast majority of the deaths in the Song of Ice and Fire books are permanent. Ned, Robert Baratheon, Viserys Targaryen, Khal Drogo, Robb Stark, Joffrey and Tywin Lannister all got the axe and are permanently dead. Catelyn is Lady Stoneheart but to be honest this plotline hasn't really been explored.

Anyway, Adorable Badass Arya™ reacts:
link

Benjen Stark is never confirmed as dead, even in the books (at least not through early in book 4, which is where I'm at). So if Cold Hands is him that doesn't count as coming back from the dead.

The one I know for sure, kinda shoulda count as back from the dead (nobody survives a wound like that without medical treatment, and that person was not going to get any).

Another thing, the books make it clear that magic is coming back to the world – the TV show is much murkier on that score.

The Mountain and the Hound.

Martin is in the "gotcha!" realm of soap opera with a lot of these deaths/maybe deaths/suggested deaths/mostly deaths.

As the Coroner of the Land of Oz

I can state here and now that,

…"they are not merely dead, but honestly and sincerely, quite clearly dead"!

SPOILERS are THROUGHOUT this ENTIRE post. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHO LIVES, DIES, COMES BACK TO LIFE, NEVER REALLY DIED, OR OTHER MARTIN HIJINKS OF HORRIBLE PLOTTING.

You have been warned. Re-read the above Blue Text if you need a second warning. After that DON'T BLAME ME.

I could have sworn on one of these threads that someone stated that Martin had the annoying habit of [apparently] killing off characters then later bringing them back.

Yes. All the time.

Catelyn Stark is killed at the Red Wedding, but brought back to life (or unlife?) by a Red Priest. She does seem to have lost some of her humanity in the process.

The Hound smashes Arya in the back of the head with his axe. Most readers would assume an axe blow to the skull would be fatal, but no, Martin later reveals it was with the flat of the axe. (Again, how a young girl is not killed or severely brain damaged by a sweeping blow from a huge, muscular man charging in on horseback, axe held flat or not, is never explained.)

Theon Greyjoy is apparently dead when some sadistic bandit whose name I can't be bothered to remember (Reese Bolton, maybe?) takes over Winterfell— but no, in the next book we find he's just been tortured.

Jaime, Brienne, and Pod are among the dead (but probably not) now.

Sansa Stark is, last I knew, not dead, but in all likelihood about to be force married and raped by "Lord" Littlefinger… but I suspect that yet another miracle of writer's whim will spare her this fate (just as it did the three or four previous times).

Arya ends one book being rendered blind by poison. In the next book, we learn it was all just a trick and that the blinding is only temporary as part of her assassin training.

Jon Snow is, as I understand it, the latest "false death" victim. I haven't bothered to read the incident in question because frankly, I got sick of this crap, and dumped Martin for better writers who finish their work, pay attention to the rules of effective plotting, and don't rely on "gotcha" gimmicks.

I'm sure I left off some deaths and resurrections, but I'll leave the fill-ins for someone who cares.

Not so much "lost some of her humanity", but becomes more focused on the IMPORTANT things in life. Like hatred and revenge.

Jon's death is interesting, because nobody I have discussed this with actually believe that it is any way "permanent". Martin has cheated too many times in the past. My first thought when I read it was "Oh, Melisandre's nearby. No problem. Just another cliffhanger." So, now, not to be a cheater, he has to kill him for real. Or, he can cheat again. That's going to the well too many times.
The only reason I am waiting for Book 6 is so I can see just how he cheats.

Hmm…Catelyn is hardly cheating. That sounds like a great thread…the vengeful undead mother. Killing someone and then having some other entity bring them back is hardly cheating.

Catelyn is hardly cheating.

Catelyn's not cheating, (well, a bit, I think). But most of the rest are. It starts to get ridiculous and predictable… though Martin is trying to be unpredictable, by book four you're just thinking, "Okay, who's he going to kill off/brutalize this time," and by book five you're thinking, "Okay, who's he going to say isn't really dead/all-that-brutalized this time." And the ending of this whole thing has become so patently obvious that any change will just be Martin stomping his feet and shrieking, "No, I am so not predictable! I am not! I never meant to do that ending! I had this shocking, out-of-character, against-the-meme-and-entire-plot moment planned all along! No, you can't look at my notes! I, uh, lost them on vacation! And then a dire wolf ate them! With lots of grease! Did I mention the grease? I like grease! Look— sex!"

It's a shame, because I had loved Martin's ability to switch POV and give the views and motivations of the villains, leaving them not so much villains in your mind. He's a master of characterization and setting… but it is becoming increasingly obvious that plot is his downfall. In fact, when he doesn't have one, he just introduces a new character (see "The Onion Knight").

" In fact, when he doesn't have one, he just introduces a new character (see "The Onion Knight")."

But I like the Onion Knight! Wait, Davos had his brush with death too. He was left for dead after the Blackwater and then resurfaced in a later book.

Maybe the next GoT thread should be "Who hasn't had a (near) death scene in a GoT?"

and Davros is supposedly dead during Dance with Boredom.

I forgot about Davos, and he's one of my favorites.
It was reported to Tywin that Manderly had him executed, chopped hands were sent s proof, etc., but he was just holding him in a dungeon. Need someone well versed in small watercraft Special Operations? I just happen to have a smuggler in my dungeeon!

In that vein, let's not forget Loras, being "almost dead" from boiling oil. As reported to Cersei by ONE GUY who then disappeared. Yet, he had time after the battle to search for … treasure? Dragon eggs?

Whatever. I am going to need three witnesses and DNA samples and a death certificate signed by 5 maesters before I believe someone is REALLY DEAD.

Look— sex!

Yeah, his sex scenes are pretty embarrassing.

I dont know what you guys are complaing about, Dondarion splained it to Arya,,, Ned Stark isnt coming back.

<in best Monty Python accent>

I'm not dead yet

I can't really answer this one without spoilers. GRRM has used and abused this trope ("Nobody ever stays dead in comics, except Bucky, Uncle Ben, and Jason Todd." Since that saying was coined, all three have come back.) But he's also averted it by killing characters and keeping them dead. So credit where credit's due-- this is in part a function of the very high body count in the series.

Several characters reported to the reader to be dead are really alive.

Several POV characters are reported as dead in-universe, but we know they're still alive.

Several characters actually died and were resurrected.

I can give examples if a few people ask, of each of these variations on "back from the dead".

Update: OMG OFM THX FOR posting that VID. Maisie is rapidly becoming my new favorite person.

Being thought of as dead in Game of Thrones is usually to your advantage. If your dead people don't come after you with sharp pointy things meaning to make you dead.

Being thought of as dead in Game of Thrones is usually to your advantage.

Ned has been spending the last 4 books sneaking up on Tywin Lannister, but without his head, he just kind of wanders off.
But, just wait!

Ned has been spending the last 4 books sneaking up on Tywin Lannister, but without his head, he just kind of wanders off.

That assumes Ned's torso doesn't have at least a rudimentary sense of smell. As I recall, Tywin was exceedingly ripe as he began laying the groundwork for his equally spectacular comeback.

Maybe Ned and Tywin will have a Valyrian light saber duel at the end of Book 7. Winner take all!

I'm betting on Robert Baratheon because nobody expects the drunken boar bait comeback as GRRM's ultimate out clevering himself.

I do miss Robert.

In that case, I'm pulling for the guy with a wolf head sewn to him. That's gotta give you an edge, right?

Well, his Mom got resurrected, so why not? As I recall, she was in pretty bad shape too.

I am not sure if resurrected is quite the right word for his dear old mum. Seems the Red god might have left a hitch or two in her giddy-up.

It's all for not anyway, isn't it? The real trick will be GRRM surviving long enough to finish the 7th book. Looking at the guy, he is not exactly a picture of great health.