Help support TMP


"Some Wore Blue, and Some Wore Gray" Topic


17 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Remember that you can Stifle members so that you don't have to read their posts.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the ACW Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

American Civil War

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset

Phil Dunn's Sea Battle Games


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

1:72nd IMEX Union Cavalry

Fernando Enterprises paints Union cavalry and Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian bases them up.


Featured Workbench Article


Featured Profile Article

Report from Bayou Wars 2006

The Editor heads for Vicksburg...


2,834 hits since 28 May 2013
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP29 May 2013 5:25 p.m. PST

As of May 21, 2012 my ACW Rules have been on sale by Amazon. Create Space, an
arm of Amazon, is my publisher. These rules have been in use since 1959 for the
first set and 1973 for the second set. My Club The War Gaming Society has used
these rules in many games.

Project Summary:

"Some Wore Blue, and Some Wore Gray: Rules For American Civil War Games With
Miniatures"

Authored by Raymond (Ray) James Jackson MA

Two sets of rules for playing American Civil War games with miniatures have been
combined into one publication called: Some Wore Blue and Some Wore Gray.

These rules are being offered to miniature wargamers of all levels of
experience, to other types of gamers and to the general public.

Experienced miniature wargamers, being either amateur or professional history
buffs, will appreciate a set of rules which not only evolved from rules from the
"Golden Age" of miniature wargaming (1955 to 1975) but still maintain both the
flavor and the feel of that era.

It is hoped that such a set of rules could induce other types of gamers and the
general public to try miniature wargaming.

Caesar29 May 2013 5:58 p.m. PST

link

Tell us more about it.

Sparker29 May 2013 10:00 p.m. PST

So these are 'old school' rules – fairly complex?

wrgmr130 May 2013 6:45 a.m. PST

Yes please, more information?

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP30 May 2013 8:25 a.m. PST

I believe these rules are fairly simple. To my mind one of the attributes of an Old School set of rules is simplicity.

Sparker30 May 2013 6:50 p.m. PST

Interesting you say that. I can recall the 'bad old days' of wading through charts and graphs and cross referencing with tables to arrive at a conclusion – about how many rifles a battalion could fire in a volley! Not the number of hits, or the effect, just how many you could start the next calculation with!

To my mind, any ruleset that requires more that one set of die rolls and looking up to calculate hits from a volley is old school!

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP30 May 2013 7:03 p.m. PST

Sparker, can you name the specific set or sets of what you call "Old School Rules"and which are "fairly complex."

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP30 May 2013 7:18 p.m. PST

old_school_wargaming : Old School Wargaming
games.groups.yahoo.com/group/old_school_wargaming
Founded Feb 23, 2005 ·
41,894 posts ·
Wargaming ·
1,643 members

Welcome to Old School Wargaming This is a group for those of us who still appreciate — or, if you're like me, have recently come to appreciate — the older style

***********************************************************

Old School Wargaming » Henry's Wargaming
henrys-wargaming.co.uk/?page_id=454

Old School Wargaming is a very nebulous concept. It is a mistake to think that all its members do nothing except march simple Spencer Smiths across an elegantly plain .

williamb02 Jun 2013 10:29 a.m. PST

@sparker

using multiple die rolls to determine a single result is actually post old school.
Old school authors are people like
Joe Morschauser
Don Featherstone
Jack Scruby
and
Charles Grant.

The rules are usually not complex.

darthfozzywig04 Jun 2013 6:45 p.m. PST

Rather than debate definitions, perhaps more specific information on the game would be helpful?

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP05 Jun 2013 4:40 p.m. PST

^ Okay, here are some examples:

Classic Blue and Gray

RULES FOR WARGAMES IN THE CIVIL WAR

A. PROCEDURE

I. BEFORE THE BATTLE

Throw dice to see who will fire first: High man wins.
Troops may be placed no farther than 9 inches from the rear edge of the table or from the sides, at the beginning of the game, nor may troops move on the first move.

II. DURING THE BATTLE

Morale throws if any.
Written orders must precede each move and may be short, but must be specific and give direction of move (i.e. Go forward, Go N.W., Stand, Charge, Etc.)
Orders to fire are unnecessary.
Skirmishers do not need orders, but all troops must obey orders.
Move troops or leave them stationary.
Open Fire: Begin from one flank to the other.
Cannon fire first, then skirmishers, then units last.

B. MOVES
Moves are simultaneous.
Troops can: Move, Face (Right, left or about) and fire in one game move.

I. INFANTRY
LINE
MARCHING CHARGING
Cross Country – 6 inches Cross Country – 9 inches
On Road or Paved Area – 7 inches On Road or Paved Area – 10 inches

COLUMN
MARCHING CHARGING
Cross Country – 9 inches Cross Country – 12 inches
On Road or Paved Area – 10 inches On Road or Paved Area – 13 inches

For Light Infantry, Skirmishers and individuals – Add 1 inch to each type of infantry move.


II. ARTILLERY
Artillery crews move like infantry when moving a cannon and like individuals when they are not.
Horse Artillery moves like cavalry.

Cannons can move and load or fire and load, but not move, fire and load in 1 move.

III. CAVALRY
Cavalry moves the same whether in line or column.

MARCHING CHARGING
Cross Country – 10 inches Cross Country – 15 inches
On Road or Paved Area – 11 inches On Road or Paved Area – 16 inches

Dismounted Cavalry move like Light Infantry.

Cavalrymen can dismount and move forward 3 inches and fire, while having horse holders take charge (1 horse holder for every 5 horses.) or dismount and picket horses in one move and not fire or leave horses and let them stampede at charging speed.

IV. ENGINEERS & SPECIAL TROOPS
These move like individuals or as cavalry if mounted.

V. FOR ALL TROOPS
When crossing obstacles such as forests, rivers, lakes, swamps, hills and mountains etc., subtract 2 inches from each type of move; this doesn't apply when going down hills or mountains or when crossing their flat areas.

After a charge move:
If Infantry, subtract 3 inches from the troops speed on the next move.
If Cavalry, subtract 4.5 inches from the troopers speed on the next move.

Two Charge Moves in succession may be made, but troops must rest throughout the next move.

It takes one move to form square or to form line or column from a square without gaining ground.


C. FIREPOWER
Firing is simultaneous. Troops fired at in flank or rear cannot return fire against the troops firing at them from the flank or the rear, but can fire at others on the move in which they were fired at. All troops fire as a unit, except skirmishers and individuals who fire singly. Units cease to fire as such when they are down to less than 4 men and the troops in the unit must then fire as individuals.

I. ELITE (GUARD TYPE) INFANTRY
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT – 3 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 4 Men

II. LINE INFANTRY
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT – 2 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 3 Men

III. RECRUIT INFANTRY
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT – 1 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 2 Men

IV. CAVALRY
Mounted: Same as Recruit Infantry
Dismounted: Same as Line Infantry

V. OTHER TROOPS
Light Infantry may have Line or Recruit Infantry firepower, engineers and artillerymen not manning cannons have Line Infantry firepower.

VI. INDIVIDUALS
Units may have front rank troops only fire as individuals when firing at skirmishers or individuals.

ELITE (GUARD) against a unit: ELITE (GUARD) against individuals:

Throw – 1, 2, 3: MISS Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4: MISS
Throw – 4, 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man

LINE INFANTRY against a unit: LINE INFANTRY against individuals:

Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4: MISS Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: MISS
Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man Throw – 6: HIT – 1 Man

RECRUIT INFANTRY against a unit: RECRUIT INFANTRY against individuals:

Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: MISS Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: MISS
Throw – 6: HIT – 1 Man Throw – 6: THROW AGAIN
If 1, 2, 3: MISS if 4, 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man

VII. SKIRMISHERS

Skirmishers against a unit: Skirmishers against individuals:

Throw – 1, 2, 3: MISS Throw – 1, 2, 3, 4: MISS
Throw – 4, 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man Throw – 5, 6: HIT – 1 Man

NOTE: Only 5 or 6 if an officer is picked, if 4 only a soldier is hit.

VIII. ARTILLERY
Cannons fire every move, but must have at least 2 crewmen. No distinction is made between rifled cannon and smoothbores in the general rules, but distinctions between these can be made for specific scenarios, and the tables can be adjusted to reflect this.

1. CANNON AGAINST CANNON
Throw – 1, 2: Knock out enemy field piece
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 2 Crewmen
Throw – 5, 6: MISS

CANNON AGAINST CANNON – Enemy Under Cover
Throw – 1: Knock out enemy field piece
Throw – 2: HIT 2 Crewmen
Throw – 3, 4, 5, 6: MISS

CANNON AGAINST CANNON – Manned by non-artillerymen
Throw – 1: Knock out enemy field piece
Throw – 2: HIT 2 Crewmen
Throw – 3, 4, 5, 6: MISS

CANNON AGAINST CANNON – Non-artillerymen & enemy under cover
Throw – 1: Throw Again (If 1, 2, 3: Knock out enemy field piece.)
Throw – 2: HIT 2 Crewmen
Throw – 3, 4, 5, 6: MISS

2. CANNON AGAINST INFANTRY OR CAVALRY
EXTREME RANGE – 36 – 48 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 1 Man
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 2 Men

LONG RANGE – 24 – 36 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 2 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 3 Men

MEDIUM RANGE – 12 – 24 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 3 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 4 Men

CLOSE RANGE – 0 – 12 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 4 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 5 Men

Cannon against skirmishers or individuals
Subtract 2 from each hit, but targets must be within a 3 inch area.

Point blank range for cannons is 8 inches.
Subtract 1 against target under cover.

3. GATLING GUNS

LONG RANGE – 12 – 24 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 4 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 5 Men

CLOSE RANGE – 0 – 12 Inches
Throw – 1, 2: MISS
Throw – 3, 4: HIT 5 Men
Throw – 5, 6: HIT 6 Men

Fire every move. Need only 1 man to operate.
Does not have to be specially trained to be effective
Subtract 1 against targets under cover.

4. Sharpshooters and/or Troops armed with repeating weapons will be given additional hit capabilities depending on the scenario. Specifically, soldiers armed with repeaters will be given additional hit capabilities compared to soldiers armed with muzzle loaders and sharpshooters with repeaters will have more hit capabilities than non-sharpshooters armed with repeaters.

IX. GENERAL

If there is only 1 man manning a cannon it will take an extra move to fire.

A cannon manned by 1 artilleryman but assisted by at least one soldier of another type is as effective as one manned by 2 artillerymen.

Any officer counts as an artilleryman.
Subtract 2 when firing against troops under cover of permanent fortifications.

Subtract 1 when firing against troops under cover of field fortifications, woods, stone walls, buildings, etc.

Troops in square subtract 1 from throws.
Rifle range is 24 inches.
Musket range is 12 inches
Carbine range is 18 inches
Point Blank range for all is 6 inches.
Subtract 3 when firing against troops in enclosed permanent fortifications.
Subtract 2 when firing against troops in enclosed field fortifications

D. MELEES

I. TROOP VALUES IN MELEE

Cavalrymen and officers count 2 points.
Elite Infantry count 1.5 points
Line Infantry count 1 point
Recruit Infantry count ½ a point.

Infantry in square are equal in points to cavalry.
Add ½ point for each soldier behind field fortifications or other cover.

Add 1 point for each soldier behind permanent fortifications.

II. DEFINITION & LIMITATIONS

A melee is only against one unit, other units may not join in its defense unless their orders oblige them to do so or they are in close range (2 inches for infantry & 3 inches for cavalry.)

III. PROCEDURE

To fight a melee, count the points on each side and multiply them against the numbers each player threw on the dice.
The player with the lowest total loses ½ his points.
The player with the highest total loses ½ of his opponent's number.

A melee lasts 2 moves. Combat takes place in the first and withdrawal or consolidation on the second; in this second move the losing side must retreat one charge move.
The winner may hold the ground won or withdraw, but not advance.
Other units may not fire at troops engaged in melee.

IV. SHOCK POWER

An infantry unit charging in column against another infantry unit standing still knocks out 1 enemy soldier for every 3 it has in line in the front ranks.

A cavalry unit attacking any other unit standing still, knocks out 1 enemy soldier for every 2 it has in line in the front ranks.

All troops not mounted are considered as infantry.
There is no shock power against troops that are moving or under cover.

Column formation must have a minimum of 2 units, one behind the other or one unit formed as a column, i.e. 2 men in width and more in length.

E. MORALE

Troops that have been fired on must throw for morale.
Elite Infantry (No morale problems)
Line Infantry – Throw 1, 2: RETREAT 3, 4, 5, 6: STAND
Recruit Infantry – Throw 1, 2, 3: RETREAT 4, 5, 6: STAND

A unit which retreated on the previous move because of bad morale must throw
2, 3, 4, 5, 6, to rally, but if a 1 is thrown, it continues retreating. On the succeeding
Moves rallying numbers are subtracted in numerical order, if unit fails to rally and continues retreating, until a "6" is left and if this is not thrown the unit is considered routed and cannot come back to the battlefield.

Cavalry, Engineers & Artillery men have no morale problems.

F. ROSTER SYSTEM

One figure usually represents fifty real soldiers, but any number can be used depending on the scenario. The roster shall show the name of the unit, its capabilities, its quality, its type, and the number of figures in the unit.
Infantry are mounted on one stand and fight as a unit, unless they are skirmishers.

Cavalry are mounted on two stands and fight as a unit unless they are skirmishers.

Artillery units usually have a cannon and five figures on a square stand.

Mark down each casualty for each unit on the roster. Remove units from the battlefield when they are wiped out.
You do not have to tell your opponent your unit casualties, but you must let him know which units have less than 4 men left at the end of the move.

Different colors will be used to indicate the move in which a casualty occurred.

G. VICTORY

The side that has lost 50% of its total men must retreat and is considered the loser, provided there is at least a 5% margin between its casualties and those of the opposing side. Otherwise the battle is a draw i.e. 50% compared to 46%, etc.
Previous to the 50% loss, any army retreating from the battlefield is the loser.

An army that is cut off from its communications must retreat, and is automatically the loser.

If both sides lose over 50% of their men, the battle is considered a draw, even if one side lost more than the other side.

H. FORTIFICATIONS & SIEGE WARFARE

Engineers carry a set of explosives capable of blowing up a gap 2 inches wide in a row of palisades or chevaux de frise, or a gap of 1 inch wide in a field fortification of any type.
Engineers carry 4 grenades. A grenade can immobilize 6 men, shoulder to shoulder or anyone in a radius of 2 inches. In a loose formation, range for grenades is 6 inches. Throw 1, 2: MISS 3, 4, 5, 6: HIT Point Blank Range is 3 inches.

Grenades or explosives dropped in an enclosed permanent fortification result in the immobilizing of all the occupants.
If dropped in an enclosed field fortification ½ of the occupants are immobilized.

Units inside an enclosed permanent fortification add 2 points to their melee value for each soldier; those inside an enclosed field fortification add 1 point to their melee value. These added points are in lieu of the ½ point added melee value for open field fortifications or 1 point added melee value for open permanent fortifications.

Troops must take one move to tear down palisades or chevaux de frise.

I. SPECIAL RULES
These are scenario specific, and take precedence over the General Rules.

arthur181509 Jun 2013 10:53 a.m. PST

Seem pretty Old School to me.

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2013 1:49 p.m. PST

As far as I am concerned Old School War Gaming rules, were developed in a twenty year period from 1955 to 1975. After that most new rules became complicated. Rules made before 1955, which include H.G. Well's "Little Wars" are Pre-Old School(arguably analogous to historic and prehistoric).This is because in Well's rules, for example, wargamers literally fired at toy soldiers with spring loaded model cannons.

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2024 3:04 a.m. PST

My rules are still published by Amazon.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2024 6:24 p.m. PST

So are these rules regimental or brigade? From what I read of them the "unit" seems to be a regiment. 1 to 50 ratio so it sounds regimental. I think JR3 is 1 to 50.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2024 6:28 p.m. PST

I never understood why miniature rules have to spell out generically what victory is or is not. That should be part of the scenario you are playing.

Some wore neither gray nor blue.

mahdi1ray Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2024 7:27 p.m. PST

^ As you say: "regimental"---so to speak. Remember, they are OLD SCHOOL from the days of Jack Scruby who played this style of miniature wargame.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.