"The 30 greatest war movies of all time" Topic

Just in time for memorial day, in a tribute to all the veterans out there, we're bringing you some of the most memorable war movies of all time…

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What?

Where are "The Dam Busters", "633 Squadron", "The Guns of Navarone", "Where Eagles Dare"?

Must be a Doodle list, where's Corvette K-225 or The Immortal Battalion?

Kelly's Heroes is the movie that made me want to enlist. And right after I enlisted and was getting ready to ship to FT Benning, GA, I saw Full Metal Jacket…

Eric

Surprised "The Patriot" made the list……..

Probably because there as so few good films about the American Revolution. The best I know of is The Crossing, which wasn't made for the screen. Al Pacino's Revolution is a horrible mess, and few of others are remotely memorable. (I remembered as a kid being alternately interested and ultimately bored by Johnny Tremain.) Heck, I can't even think of many AWI films at all, which stuns me. It's a ripe period, yet Hollywood doesn't seem to touch it (except for that embarrassingly silly musical, 1776). At least The Patriot has some decent battle scenes, which, before they become about Gibson going mano-a-mano, are halfway realistic.

I've seen quite a few of the others, except for the '70s Hollywood anti-war angst films, which I avoid like the proverbial plague. (Okay, I've seen Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket… but I count myself lucky to have avoided Platoon.)

Am I the only one who really didn't think much of the Hurt Locker? The movie was touted as being so accurate, but was so packed with inaccuracies and Holywoodisms that I felt like I was not watching the same movie the critics were touting.

Also, I loved Saving Private Ryan the first time I watched it, but the more I watch it the more I just see Hollywood. The part I cannot overlook is the tossing of a live grenade with the pin pulled to a buddy who then throws it to the target. One of my fellow soldiers throws a hot grenade at me, I am going to make some wild assumptions about how much he wants to kill me.

They got some good ones in there though. I was glad to see Das Boot.

IMDB has a similar list which includes Red October and not Das Boot…

Pretty good list but I don't agree with all of them. "The Enemy Below" is another good one that didn't make the list.

Casablanca and Schindler's List are not what I would call war movies. I agree with about 1/2 the list and have most of those that I would consider on the list. WWII seems to be very well represented considering when most of these were made. All the Vietnam movies except "We were Soldiers" I consider hack jobs about the military. The IMBd list of the 1000 or so best war movies is better, it does have some real stinkers on it as well.

VR
James Mattes

I have copies of all but a few of these.
Like others, I didn't think much of "The Patriot". I'd like to see a movie based on the battle of the Cowpens. And not just because I live near there.
Never really thought of "Casablanca" as a war movie. But I have a copy as it's a terrific flick.
Parzival,
You should see "Platoon". It's a good movie. The Platoon Sgt. and some others are dirtbags, or worse. But the Bn. C.O, played by Dale Dye, is a good officer. And the movie has other redeeming qualities.
I was on my second tour in Ft. Lewis, WA when "Apocalypse Now" came out. My Squad Leader had a copy on lazer disc. We watched the Air Cavalry attack scene most duty days before first formation to get motivated. My unit then was 3/5 Air Cav.

Yeah, I'd have to swap out quite a few of their top 30.
Platoon, Hurt Locker, and Das Boot all would get punted.

OK, so what films would you like to see on a "Greatest War Movie" listing, i for one thought that several very good films were left off including Wings,Hells Angels, Twelve O'clock High to name several.

The FOX list is very poor IMO. Go figure.

I prefer many of this person's top 30 choices…

imdb.com/list/SqOEmkRJVXE

(He didn't overlook Ran or Das Boot. He avoided the pretentious snubbing of Inglourious Basterds.)

"The Thin Red Line"

Missing some really good movies…. The Thin Red Line, Stalingrad, and Cross of Iron to name the best ones.

No "War and Peace" or "Henry V" in favor of a bunch of B and C list movies? Whoever compiled that list doesn't get out much.

Rick

All the John Wayne movies except Green Berets Wake Island Sahara A Distant Trumpet Major Dundee The General Heavens Gate China Gate Bridges at Toko Ri The Bridge
The Bedford Incident Dr. Stangelove Fail Safe
They Were Expendable Mr. Roberts Away All Boats

btw I like B and C list movies.

Um. It's about half good. The other half, considerably less so.

Insert – Zulu, Gallipoli, the Light Horsemen, Stalingrad.

Delete – anything with Mel Gibson. Most things with John Wayne.

Delete John Wayne? C'mon man.

My first thought was "what the hell is this crap?". I think I will stay with that thought.
A lot of good films missing and some rather questionable films included. At least The Battle of the Bulge wasn´t there.

One film I would highly recommend is The Big Parade (1924). If you can stomach silent films, it is quite good, and the first time they go into action it is thrilling. Good stuff!

The best American war films maybe (with a few consessions to other lands thrown in for diplomacy's sake).

There are about 8-10 I'd leave but the rest I'd chuck out.

If you allow Casablanca then African Queen is also a war film – and a lot better to boot.

Nothing with John Wayne please, they are just JW films whatever the subject.

Zulu certainly, Cross of Iron is a tough watch but a damn good film, Henry V lots of potential but too stylised to make the top 30. I really like the British propoganda films made during the war (and some US ones too) but I'd hardly call any of them 'great'.

The problem is that one tends to go with what one likes rather than think about what makes a choice a 'good' film – too subjective to get a list that any significant number of people would agree with.

The Steel Helmet isn't on the list and should be.

Ditto what Texas Jack says. Where is the Memphis Belle, that is a terrific movie.

I'd scrap most of the John Wayne and Mel Gibson stuff (except for We were Soldiers), and insert Zulu, the Dam Busters, Cross of Iron, Enemy at the Gates, Ran, Red Cliff.

Problem is there are so many films to choose from and everyones list is subjective to ones own interpretation of what is good. It depends on whether you think it is accurate in context, clothing, tactics, and style, the circumstances that you first saw it, later research/information obtained about the battle/war etc.

All in all a myriad of things will determine what is on each individuals list. I would not expect anyone to agree with my own choices, but it is just that – my choices.

Steve J

Delete John Wayne! I can not believe I even typed that. EVERYONE knows the Green Berets IS the best Vietnam movie ever, and the second best movie on U.S. Special Forces.

VR
James Mattes

Leaving Zulu off is a flogging offense.

Interesting that so many of the "Duke's" movies made the cut. "The Hurt Locker" is a powerful film, and really goes far to explain why people choose to go to war.

Charge of the Light Brigade, The Enemy Below, Operation Tokyo, Run Silent Run Deep, Twelve O'Clock High, Need I go on.

For me – Battleground in, Patriot out. Battle of Britain in, The Deer hunter, out.

Insert – Gallipoli
Delete – anything with Mel Gibson.

I need a drink.

Oh, wait, yeah --- :)

But that was before Mel got so "I need a drink" himself.

I also wonder if the compiler of the list was told "Look at the demographic we're addressing."

Would it be too Blue Fezzy to suggest that the Fox News audience's taste in movies makes John the OFM seem like Sean Penn? Folks who think "How the West was Won" is a documentary?

Because that would account for the plethora of that Wayne fella that some people like so much, and others don't.

an arbitrary list to tell me what are the top war movies of all time? nah, it is all subjective anyway. Wolverines!!! lol

Oi! Hey, Mexican Jack!

Mind the OFM.

Eric

Well Mexican Jack, you're sounding like a doggone communist. One can never have too much of the Duke. Wayne is in "The Longest Day," but I don't think you can really call that a John Wayne movie, unless you're going to call "A Bridge Too Far" a Robert Redford or a Michael Caine movie.

The Green Berets is a bit cheesy, but the overrunning of the SF camp was pretty fantastic I thought. Along those lines, I would strongly recommend Platoon for the gentlemen that haven't seen it.

And "Sands of Iwo Jima" it the penultimate Marine movie. I saw that movie at the age of five and knew I was going to be a Marine. So, by my count, that's two John Wayne movies, which even Fox viewers know isn't a plethora (unless you're saying any is too many).

Regarding other notables on the list, I always thought "Apocalypse Now" was trash, except for that air assault scene, which I think is one of the greatest movie scenes in history. I was pretty let down by the Hurt Locker; a bit too artsy, suffered from the superman movie syndrome (we have a three-man supporting element running all over creation doing all manner of tasks), and a bit cliched.

I agree with the idea that "Schindler's List" and "Casablanca," whatever their merits as movies, have no business on a list of war movies. If they can make it we should have "Titanic" on there as well ;) I'm sure a war was going on somewhere… Okay, not Titanic, but at least "The Great Santini." On a serious note, I don't really see "The Deer Hunter" as a war movie either.

I really enjoy "Saving Private Ryan." It's all in how you watch it; if you ignore the plot you can sit back and watch a series of fantastic firefights.

Regarding some of the ones not on the list but mentioned: "Cross of Iron" is classic, and exactly how I picture the Eastern Front (and what I try to recreate on the tabletop). I love the fight for the ridge-line in "The Thin Red Line," but other than those 15 minutes there's not much there for me. I'm sorry guys, but "Gallipoli?" I thought that was a story about competitive friends that needed a setting for a tragic ending.

How about "The Four Feathers?" I'd also recommend a personal favorite of mine: "Bataan!" There ain't no sugar for the coffee, and there ain't no coffee. The only meat we got is mule, and it's got maggots.

On a side, sort of oddball note, I wouldn't recommend either of these two for the best war movie list, but two of my favorite firefight scenes are the ambush in "Forrest Gump," and the firefight coming out of the bank in "Heat." In my opinion, no movie captures the shock, chaos, and confusion of being ambushed like Gump, and nothing shows the concept of fire and movement (while engaging enemies to the front and rear), or demonstrates the meaning of the term "violence of action" like DeNiro, Kilmer, and Sizemore moving up the street. As a matter of fact, "Tears of the Sun" had some good small unit combat in it as well.

In any case, I've rambled.

Jack

Makes ME seem like Sean Penn? Well, for one thing, *I* would never marry Madonna.
Harrumph.

At the top of my "You got to be kidding!" list is M*A*S*H. Can't stand that fillum, or the TV show

I would add The Wind and the Lion. Not because of any spurious need for historiacl accuracy, but just because.
I would also add The Lord of the Rings on the grounds that there is no need to be historical either.

The Cruel Sea.

I appreciate all the love for Fox viewers here--but then, I'd have absolutely no interest in such a list from MSNBC.

That said, there are some stinkers on the posted list. And where's The Warlord or 55 Days in Peking or (as others have noted) Zulu? How about The Wind and the Lion or The Blue Max?

Rob

Well for violence of action and realistic depiction of combat BHD is far better then any of the rest hands down. Another worth mentioning is We Were Soldiers for the combat action. The Lost Battalion is good as well. We use some of the imagery from BHD in work with Veterans. I know some about the event and the action involved.

The only think I liked about Apocalypse Now was the introduction something along the line of

"Saigon. crap, I am still here. I'm here a week waiting for a mission and getting softer…
…Everyone gets everything he wants. I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one. It was a real choice mission, and when it was over, I'd never want another.

It is classic!

VR
James Mattes

James,
I thought BHD was a fantastic movie and a great combat film. But what scene(s) in particular do have in mind demonstrating violence of action?

I was really let down by "We Were Soldiers;" I was pretty familiar with the actions in the Ia Drang/at LZ X-Ray, and I just thought it could have shown so much more. It certainly focused on the interpersonal stories, and I get that, but I was aggravated with the fact it was so oversimplified. I feel like the story of the battle wasn't told. It was get off the choppers, some guys run over here, some guys run over there, hey, there's Charlie, chase him! Now they're shooting, now we're shooting, oh look, a helo.

I'm sure a lot of folks love it because of the personal stuff, the great CO, the memorable SgtMaj, the journalist, the pilot, the young, newly married Lt; hell, it had too much of that. To me it seemed like a caricature, and I felt it made the soldiers (I almost said doggies) look like idiots. It certainly didn't show the stroke/counter-stroke the battle actually turned into.

How could you not like the air assault in Apocalypse Now? I know it didn't make any sense (using a sandspit in the ocean as an LZ, the foolishness with the surfing, and where'd an Amtrac come from?), but it was still cool as hell; watching the Hogs go in and the napalm CAS was fantastic.

Jack

I thought the combat scenes in Casablanca were particularly well-filmed, so I have no problem with that.

I'm also glad they didn't include Downfall, given its light-hearted treatment of its subject matter.

Drop "The Green Berets" because it's crap and "Full Metal Jacket" because it's just a WWII movie shot on a different set (the book was much better). Add "The Boys in Company C" and "84 Charlie MoPic".

Drop "Sands of Iwo Jima" and add "A Walk in the Sun".

Drop "The Patriot" and add "Gallipoli" – yeah, it's still Mel Gibson but it's a much better movie.

Drop "Schindler's List" and "Casablanca" because they're not war movies and add "The Lighthorsemen" and either "The Cruel Sea" or "In Which We Serve".

Make sure that "Apocalypse Now" is the original release and not Coppola's horrible bloated director's cut. It's not everybody's cup of tea, I know, but I was very briefly attached to the real 1/9 Cavalry at Phuoc Vinh and they were just like that, although they wouldn't have handled a combat assault as amateurishly as Robert Duvall and his men.

LT

There are a number of real dogs on that list, such as the Green Berets and Midway. Meanwhile the list leaves out some real classics including:

Pork Chop Hill
Breaker Morant
12 O'Clock High
Battle of Britain
The Blue Max
Guadalcanal Diary
Braveheart
King Rat
Stalag 17
Mrs. Minerva

Also:

Eye of the Needle
Back to Bataan
Bataan
April Morning
Sahara
Operation Burma
Bridges of Toko Ri
Run Silent Run Deep
The Enemy Below
Hell to Eternity
They Were Expendible
Steel Helmet

they should really restrict the writing of these articles to people over 25 years old.

The only thing fundamentally wrong with Platoon is that people can't separate the film from the director. Yes, Oliver Stone is a colossal tool. Plenty of directors have been utterly vile human beings and still made great films. Perhaps it's just the aggressive and repugnant political agenda of this particular director that prejudices people so.

Still, there is the inescapable fact that Stone volunteered for combat duty in Vietnam and served in-country for over a year, first with the 25th Infantry Division and later with 1st Cav (Airmobile). Twice wounded (PH w/oak leaf cluster), he was also awarded the Bronze Star (with a "V") and the Air Medal. And he based Platoon on his experiences in Vietnam, which is not the same thing as saying what happened in the movie really happened to Oliver Stone, or that he didn't amplify some things to serve the story. That's movie making. But to say he got it "'wrong" is absurd.

Ah, I forgot about "Pork Chop Hill," a classic, and a 'real' war movie. No love interests, no flashbacks to civvie life, no moral dilemmas or flawed/broken leaders, just ordinary men in an extraordinary situation.

I like but don't love "Battleground," "Guadalcanal Diary," and "Wake Island," but there's just not a lot of action. How about "Gung Ho?" Not the Michael Keaton flick, the one about the raid on Makin. Sure it's propaganda, but good action.

Jack

The Way Ahead

Another vote for "A Walk in the Sun".

The Green Berets? Oy.

no "The Odd Anngy Shot", "Breaker Morant" , "Gallipoli","The Battle of Britain" The Dambusters" and pretty well all the ones mentioned as left out alread.."The Cruel Sea " a classic in every way

I couldn't take it seriously after it listed "The Green Berets".

I am not a fan myself of naval warfare but there isn't many in the list.
How about 'The sinking of the Bismarck'
Red Cliff springs to mind.
Ran is certainly one film missed and others by Kurasawa.
The trouble is we don't get enough foreign war films released with subtitles to enjoy.