"All Quiet on the Martian Front: Can we see the rules?" Topic

Okay, so clever pacing and escalating hype left me absolutely frothing about this game. Love the setting, love the pictures we've seen, love the ramping up as more and more people sign up.

And then … the "How To Play" video was released. After the demand of "just trust us" from their description of the game, my expectations were set to discover something avant garde and a little bit fresh. Instead, we see the foundation to the game is IGOUGO, with innovation discovered when you apply modifiers to a coin toss to see who goes first. The video hid all charts, but the clatter of dice (far too near the microphone) assured us that important things were being done in a system that was fast, slick, and yet realistic. But all we see is roll to hit, roll to damage, remove the tank from the table. Okay, walkers take internal hits (we saw "reduced armor" demonstrated, the write-up hints at other systems that might go awry).

So … is this it? Is the magic in the game to be found in special rules made up for special units? And more importantly, why is this kept from us? Everyone buying in will eventually get an electronic copy of the basic rules. Why not release them now? Oh sure, it's bound to be a work in progress, and to show what you're up to might invite a ton of not necessarily welcomed criticisms. But hey, maybe there is innovation out there to be offered?

But it might clinch the deal if you showed us some rules that looked like the backbone to a fun game. It might break the deal if the rules are weak, or too simplistic. I think I'd rather know what the game is about, before throwing money at it.

Why not release a detailed summary of a turn sequence? Show us the charts! The movement rates! The weapon ranges! Give us a sense that there's more to be mentally manipulated in this game than looking up a To Hit number!

There is a Q&A session tomorrow morning (Sat 18th) with the staff at 9:00 am eastern time…would be a good time to ask the above, and perhaps be satified. They held one last night and a lot of question were ask, you could also start there. My understanding this is a ground level game start up, not already operating and wanting to release new models like so many KS. This staff have been good at answering 2000 comments so far, as best they can, but its a work in progress.

Why pan the product? If you don't like what you see now then wait and buy later. This is a kickstarter the product is released in December and no doubt will continue to be developed. Everyone had an opinion your dislike is someone else's like. For my part I wish I could support more KS so this hobby could continue to grow and thrive rather than put the coffin lid on even before its been given chance to grow.

Guys -- I have been in on this from the launch and so far the game looks great. But to me the minis are what drew me. From what I understand the rules will be pretty straight forward but allowances available to alter die results and movement. But dont take my word for it, stop by and check the Q&A tomorrow. The one we had last night was great and very informative.

So, like Crann Tara Minis said above -- dont pan the game now especially if you really havent checked it out.

Didn't pan the game.

I'd like to buy now, in fact invest in a strong way, while the KS discounts are so deep. But I'd also feel better with the assurance it's a game I'll enjoy having purchased.

I would love to check it out.

After reading the comments it's pretty clear that the rules are still in flux and subject to change. I think it's within the author/owners rights to decide when to release a product. It's in your right to decide when to buy but the reason for a kick starter is to raise capital to get a product to market

I can see a lot of reasons why AD might be reluctant to release a alpha or even beta set of rules – lets see
- they may not be ready and why set expectations too low when the polished product is ready
- the game is months away from public release so why tip your hand to competitors who might be developing something similar but just don't have the creative chops to do it on their own

I think the AD team has been very responsive so far and I'm very excited about the game and happy to sponsor with the information available.

It's perfectly fine for you to make a different decision but that's up to you.

Alien Dungeon has been bending over backwards to provide replies, answers, and information on the fledgling 'All Quiet on the Martian Front' game project. They've provided a video with the basic outlines of the game turn, which looks very fun in my opinion, in response to requests from interested fans.

They have repeatedly stated that the game is still under development, and patiently explained they would rather not release playtesting material that may change over the coming months.

Personally speaking, it's my experience that the vast majority of the games I've played are IGOUGO, and none the worse for it. That does not make them all the same game, and it is so because that system works very well for table top games.

Many of us like what we saw in the video, I am very grateful for having seen it, and am supporting the Alien Dungeon Kickstarter to the best of my financial ability. Moreover, I invite everyone to check out the project over on Kickstarter at link and make up your own minds about whether it is worthy of your support. I think you will not be disappointed:)

I have to agree with everyone else here. They have showed above and beyond what a lot of kickstarters show, have been infinitely more communicative, and are doing what they can to get the info they have ready into the hands of people.

Like Gerry Said this ain't ebay and its definitely not a finished product, that is what the funding is for.

I do understand the desire to have more access to the rules upfront before pledging. It is a game they are trying to sell after all! But just a little reading of the information already provided reveals much about the game. The army lists that have been posted and linked to on the Kickstarter main page are a great look into the game. Not only do they give the basic stats for all of the units currently revealed, movement, attack, defense, and such, they also go into some of the special abilities of the units. Each army list is more than 10 pages long. That is quite a lot of information out there for scrutiny!

AD has also commented specifically on releasing a still in development set of rules too early. I think we should all try to appreciate the reality of AD's position. The game is still 7 months at an absolute minimum from release (Dec 2013), it is a guarantee that the rules will differ in some aspects then from the way they are now. Does it make sense to release something now that may be substantially different from the final product? I don't know. What I do know is that I have faith in the track record of the rather big names who are writing the rules.

I also feel it is absolutely premature to draw any conclusions on the quality of the game from only the initial amount of information already revealed (knowing full well after having made this statement that it is precisely more information about the rules that some are asking for). The crew at AD have been amazingly responsive and active throughout the KS so far and are indeed listening to everything that is being said about the project. I am sure once they have more information ready to be presented to the public they will do so as soon as possible. They have already hinted at some "selling point" game mechanics that might make this game stand out from others (the split movement phases, hidden movement and ambushes, special assault infantry that can "hide" in larger infantry formations, the charging mechanic of the Tesla Tank, etc). I think just a little more substance on a few of these very cool sounding things will make many more people very happy to back this game.

Okay, so clever pacing and escalating hype left me absolutely frothing about this game.

The pacing is dreadful and the hype is merely escalating in your mind. This KS campaign actually got off to a good start but continues to stall as AD (IMO) clearly lack the direction and organisational skills to see it through to a roaring success.

They are running out of time to make good on all their hints & teases in time for any significant backer numbers to care and/or be influenced.

Alien Dungeon has not been 'hinting and teasing'. They have provided examples of the game in it's developmental stages when asked for it. They clearly stated they would not release anything that they felt was likely to undergo changes in the playtesting ahead, for fear of misleading people. Never have they promised completed material before the end of the Kickstarter. It was their choice to initiate the Kickstarter while they are still working on the game. You do not agree with the decision obviously, but don't misrepresent them. You claim they 'clearly' lack direction and organisational skills' but the praise for Alien Dungeon's work has been loud and clear among the majority of backers.

I'm sorry Moocifer but that last statement of your is well over the top

I've been vocal on the choice of turn sequence they are planning on using in the game but I'm glad they are not rushing out a set of rules during the KS. it's good to see a firm that is playtesting the rules vigorously before they release anything to the public.

some firms will just release half tested rules just to get them out there, others take there time and get the rules in order before making them available, I see AD as being in the second camp here so we have to trust them to produce a well balanced game.

To me having the Kickstarter pledges at three times what they were looking for (and steadily rising every day) IS a "roaring success"! The pre-KS info and free goodies plus the almost daily updates is the best pacing and hype that I have seen in ANY KS so far.

Of course there will always be people that see it differently, but most comments I have read have been positive.

Moocifier -- is that you from the KS? This is Charlie from there and you couldnt be more wrong. And quite frankly Im rather put off by your comments. The guys at AD have been great. The models are fantastic and their attention to backers has been top-notch. Thanks for slandering the game you were helping to begin with.

@moocifier What are you expecting from them???? They are bending over backwards in communication and making sure that peoples voices are heard. I dare anyone to point to another kickstarter that has as much creator comments and active input. If you don't like it, don't back it but take your smear campaign somewhere else.

I have to agree. Fine if you aren't happy, then back out, but the overwhelming response to this kickstarter is hugely positive, as evidenced to the fact the are almost 300% funded. Please don't continue the tirade of purely subjectively negative comments, as it may become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Kickstarters aren't product launches.

Well I have been following this KS from the very beginning and frankly, I don't know which planet moocifer is on! We have been kept informed on a daily basis as to what is happening. The models are superb and the background is fabulous. The rules are a work in progress, but what has been shown so far is fine. I have been wargaming since 1970(!) so I have used my fair share of rulesets. The pledge levels are fine and the unlock bonuses are well above what I was expecting. This is a "Development" Kickstarter, which is what KS is for! If you are not sure about the game, take a good long look at what is already on offer. frankly it is amazing.

I think AD a doing a great job. Pulp 15mm gaming is always going to be a smaller market than a scifi boardgame for obvious reasons. And historical miniature gamers that find this game appealing (like me) are generally such a stingy lot you need to offer the world for them to pledge 5c unlike the painting/ boardgame/ scifi miniatures crowd who will dump $300 USD plus on a game.

+1 Col Von Barring,
There has been a lot of communication on the rules and gameplay for this kickstarter.

Guys = please ignore moocifer and come by now for a QandQ at the KS!

link

This latest on Initiative and game turn from AQotMF.

The All Quiet on the Martian Front game is played in turns. During a turn one side gets to move and make attacks with his army, and then the other side gets to move and make attacks with his army, after which the turn is over. Depending on the scenario being played a game can last for a fixed number of turns, or until one side achieves its objectives, as described in the section on ‘Scenarios'.
The turn proceeds in phases as noted below.
Phase 1 Initiative phase The initiative phase establishes which side is side ‘A' and which side is side ‘B'.
Phase 2 Side A's Turn First Move phase
Combat phase
Second Move phase
Phase 3 Side B's Turn First Move phase
Combat phase
Second Move phase
Phase 4 End phase The turn is complete – start another turn beginning again with Initiative and so on.
INITIATIVE PHASE
The turn begins with the Initiative phase when the players decide which side ‘has the initiative' that turn – in other words which side is going to be ‘A' and which side ‘B'. To find out who has the initiative both player's roll a single D10 and compare the scores. In the case of a tied initiative roll, re-roll the dice and keep re-rolling further ties until you get a result. The player with the higher scoring dice can decide whether to be ‘A' or ‘B' that turn – whether to go first or second. In most situations it is better to go first, but often at the start of a game it is better to go second and force your opponent to reveal his moves whilst your troops are hidden or out of range.
INITIATIVE MODIFIERS
Initiative modifiers only apply to the Human side. Martians are devoid of such human sentiments as despair or elation, and will therefore keep on fighting with unerring efficiency regardless of events.
During the game the changing fortune of the opposing armies affects the result of the initiative roll. Losses incurred during one turn modify the initiative roll for the next, making it possible for a player who does well to exploit an opportunity in the following turn.
The following initiative modifiers are common to all games except where a scenario specifies otherwise. Some scenarios introduce further modifiers, as do special rules for some troop types, but these are exceptions and need not concern us for the moment. The common modifiers are summarised here for convenience. Remember, these apply only to the human side – the Martian player always rolls an unmodified D10.
Circumstance Initiative Modifier
Each Martian Tripod unit destroyed in the previous turn +3
Each Martian Machine unit destroyed in the previous turn +2
Each Martian Zombie unit destroyed in the previous turn +1
Each Human Ironclad machine unit destroyed in the previous turn -3
Each Human vehicle/tank or artillery unit destroyed in the previous turn -2
Each Human infantry unit destroyed in the previous turn -1
MOVE PHASE
A player has two opportunities to move during a turn: the first move phase and second move phase. These phases are separated by the combat phase when units get a chance to attack the enemy. Most troops can move in both move phases, which means they can advance to the attack and then retreat again in the same turn. Some units can only move in one move phase, limiting their mobility compared to other troops. Units that are restricted in this way are indicated with a special rule as explained later.
Aside from units limited as noted above, a player can move any or all of his units in each move phase, or can choose to leave them where they are if preferred. Move one unit at a time until every unit that you want to move has done so. Once a player begins to move a unit he is not permitted to go back and change the move of units moved previously. In other words, starting a unit's move means the move of the previous unit is now over – so no going back!

I had a thought about the rules being the balance point to buying in or not…foe me it is all about the miniatures.

The rules are one of the first bricks in the purchase plan, then it is all about the various stages of extra miniatures.

My gut check says if you like the miniatures then buy them.

If you end up not liking the rules, use another set or your own…in this case it is a great deal on fun miniatures and you get a set a rules with it…like a new truck and getting a couple cases of spam in the bed as a sales bonus…it is the savings on the truck and not the spam that is the real bonus.

:)

just some more updates from the Qand A…

1. Army Composition: 
BEF 
Must take 75% of points in BEF equipment
( A pure British Force not avialable in North America? Would get a bonus of some kind for Technological Confidence)
USA Army with Detachment 
Must take 75% USA Equipment
USA Army National Force 
Must be 100% American equipment but the Industrial Might Bonus +50 free point for every 300pts in the Army
Canada 
50% BEF equipment and 50% USA Equipment
There will be specific lists for famous regiments and "Pods"


2.  Creator Alien Dungeon less than a minute ago
Loads of army lists coming! Variant forces, State Militia, tons of stuff. 


3.  Creator Alien Dungeon just now
Scout cars coming in the BEF 


4.  Creator Alien Dungeon 1 minute ago
Assault Tripods – Injection plastics (not Restic or whatever you call it) 
Tanks – Resin / metal add ons 
Infantry – Metal 
Other Tripods – Resin / Metal add ons 


5.  Creator Alien Dungeon 1 minute ago
Plastics for Assault Tripods. 
Would like to do the Mark II chassis and the Scout Tripods but we need more backers for that.
Other models are multimedia- resin and metal.


another update on the Invasion starter set….

Invasion Starter Set Stat Lines

Update #37 · May 18, 2013 · comment
Some folks asked for the revised Invasion Starter Set Stat Lines (with Defence and other info added). Here you go!

Unit Type Speed Defense Armor Weapons Special Rules

Infantry Squad – Infantry – 6" – 5/4 – Rifle,Grenades – Stealth

Mk1 Baldwin – Tank – 6" – 6/7 – Tank Gun – Armored

Rough Riders – Infantry – 10" – 7/4 – Machine Gun – Tow Cables

Machine Gunners – Infantry – 6" – 5/4 – Machine Gun – Stealth

Assault Tripod – Tripod – 8" – 9/10 – Heat Ray – Massive

another update on rules -- but they are BETA….

Barrages- All armies have weapons capable of Barrages.
THESE ARE BETA
Barrage (n)
Barrage weapons are designed to plaster an area with intense fire. In the game a single shot from a barrage weapon may represent a whole barrage of actual shots aimed in the general direction of the target in the hope of hitting as many enemies as possible.

If a weapon is described as a ‘barrage' then instead of rolling to damage the target in the manner described in the rules, a special ‘barrage template' is used. The barrage template is marked with concentric circles of 1", 2", 3" and 4" diameter – it is effectively four different sized templates in one. Depending upon the weapon and number of shooters, the unit employs one of these templates from 1" (the smallest) to 4" (the largest). This works as follows:

1 Each shooting element has a barrage value, e.g. barrage 1, barrage 2, and so on. The unit uses the template size equivalent to all of its elements added up. For example, a Howitzer has barrage 1 so a unit of three Howitzers firing at a target has a combined barrage value of 3 and the 3" template is used. A Martian Tripod shooting with a Black Dust Projector has a barrage value of 4 so the 4" template is used.

2 The template can be positioned anywhere within range of the unit that is shooting, measuring range and calculating line of sight from any of the unit's elements if it is a multi-element unit. So long as one element can see the entire unit shoots and the barrage template for the whole unit is used. The template must be placed wholly within range of whichever element is selected for calculating range and line of sight, for example, if the 2" template is being used the whole 2" template area must lie within the range of this element.

3 Each element that lies beneath the template area, whether wholly or only partially, and whether friend or foe, is hit and the shooter rolls for damage. Roll once regardless of the number of weapons or elements shooting.

4 Apply damage and take any morale check required as you would for other shooting.

updated Barrage rules are coming shortly…

updated Barrage rules as promised -- again still BETA

Creator Alien Dungeon 1 minute ago
Here is the revised Barrage rules. Basically the same, but the first thing was just missing the section about trying to hit when the template is placed. AGAIN – BETA!
Barrage (n)
Barrage weapons are designed to plaster an area with intense fire. In the game a single shot from a barrage weapon may represent a whole barrage of actual shots aimed in the general direction of the target in the hope of hitting as many enemies as possible.

If a weapon is described as a ‘barrage' then instead of rolling to hit the target in the manner described in the rules, a special ‘barrage template' is used. The barrage template is marked with concentric circles of 1", 2", 3" and 4" diameter – it is effectively four different sized templates in one. Depending upon the weapon and number of shooters, the unit employs one of these templates from 1" (the smallest) to 4" (the largest). This works as follows:

1 Each shooting element has a barrage value, e.g. barrage 1, barrage 2, and so on. The unit uses the template size equivalent to all of its elements added up. For example, a Howitzer has barrage 1 so a unit of three Howitzers firing at a target has a combined barrage value of 3 and the 3" template is used. A Martian Tripod shooting with a Black Dust Projector has a barrage value of 4 so the 4" template is used.

2 The template can be positioned anywhere within range of the unit that is shooting, measuring range and calculating line of sight from any of the unit's elements if it is a multi-element unit. So long as one element can see the entire unit shoots and the barrage template for the whole unit is used. The template must be placed wholly within range of whichever element is selected for calculating range and line of sight, for example, if the 2" template is being used the whole 2" template area must lie within the range of this element.

3 Each element that lies beneath the template area, whether wholly or only partially, and whether friend or foe, has a chance to be hit. The firing unit make ONE to hit roll against the standard Defence of the unit under the template. If a hit is scored, all elements touched by the template are struck, and rolls are then made to penetrate the armor value off the elements hit.

4 Apply damage and take any morale check required as you would for other shooting.

Fine job fellows, did anyone mention the British Land Ironclad with come with TWO (2) scout cars based ON IT for scouting ahead!!! Will be interesting just to see that model. LOL

hey Jammerman -- yes, that Iron Clad will be very nice…

They also hinted at a Martian Front boardgame/campaign that can be used to generate miniature battles on the horizon. I'm on board, loads of potential here!!

Also, they said if they get enough pledges more of the figs can be done in plastic which will mean lower prices and it sounded like more for your pledge dollars.

After the morning Q&A today, I read thru it a little afterwards and it made me think that perhaps a reason for the jump on jump off types is actually AD. They have a vision for a game that gamers can't grasp. They have shared so much of DOWN THE ROAD POSSIBLITIES, that folks visiting and reading the info, want it now (type of society today). So instead of being able to have it now ie, planes, French and Germans, Moonmen, all types of armour, infantry etc, they slam the game and go off somewhere else to pout.

We should be excited a game company is listening to input from strangers (us), making changes as the KS continues (cheaper rule book, wider trenches,etc). How can anyone complain about how AD is running this KS. I for one would just advise them, don't buy now. Wait until its released and watch/play in a demo and then make their decision. They might be happy they waited, or ticked they miss a HUGE opportunity.

Never thought I would turn into a fanboy, but I really like the storyline, models and feedback and patience from the AD. Thanks guys.

Hey guys. Alien Dungeon will be including lots of free stuff an decals to the all starter boxes and above if we hit 150000 by tomorrow night! Come Join!

Creator Alien Dungeon about 2 hours ago
hmmm. How about Gubbins (a random assortment of helmets, tarps, machine guns, etc. and a transfer sheet ( tank markings and such) for everybody if we hit 150k by tomorrow night?

Many of you seem to be missing the point and harping on about seeing unfinished rules .. (MikeH for example)

I've never once asked for that so before you go getting all defensive actually take the time to do a little background check.

.. but the praise for Alien Dungeon's work has been loud and clear among the majority of backers.

Try investigating the reasons behind why those that aren't backing, and then perhaps you'll have something worthwhile to say.

Are there really that many jump on jump off backers, though? Since this morning there have been another 20-25 backers and the total pledge amount is almost to 150K. More free goodies coming!! 8)=

Yeah I don't think I'll keep my pledge..

Yep, the numbers are climbing! And JHolen why would you drop your pledge?

@Jholen why you going?
Personally this has been the most interactive and informed KS I have been on. For those that look to the future, this is a small but established company who will keep the ball rolling whatever. It is a whole new game and system but there are still the options for those that don't wish to buy in totally to adapt and incorporate the product into their own set up. Lots of talk re FOW and on the Too Fat Lardies bout this.
Keep the faith.

@moocifer

you are correct you never mentioned the rules, I had your comments mixed up with another backer who did demand to see the rules, so I'm happy to apologise for that misunderstanding

you have been vocal about seeing more concept art and background fluff though and I got my wires crossed on that, however I do still disagree with you on the way AD are handling this kickstarter project, so far they have impressed me

tell you what next time we meet up in a show, I'll buy you a beer to make up for my comments

New free stuff if we hit 150K today…

@ Moocifer--- My statement that praise has been loud and clear for Alien Dungeon is true. I will ignore your personal attack that what I have to say 'isn't worth listening to' only because Ernie Baker has been a shining example of graciousness to you, one we ought to follow. Good day.

hey guys -- we are less than $3,900 USD away from free bitz and the decals == along with our $150,000 USD goa! Keep spreading the word!

I played some test games today with proxy models and put it up on my blog. Give it a look.

usulshomeworld.blogspot.com

woohoo! 150K goal reached, Houston we have Gubbins!!

More playtest videos, BEF and more up oin site. New stretch goals announced too!

New scenario up! This file has them both with Beta rules:

PDF link