Help support TMP


"Calpe Recaster On E-Bay" Topic


50 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please be courteous toward your fellow TMP members.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Naval Painting Guides Message Board

Back to the Napoleonic Discussion Message Board

Back to the Consumer Affairs Message Board


Areas of Interest

General
Napoleonic

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Showcase Article

1:700 Black Seas British Brigs

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian paints brigs for the British fleet.


Featured Workbench Article

3Dprinted Tiles

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian experiments with 3Dprinting tiles.


4,012 hits since 14 May 2013
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

The Membership System will be closing for maintenance in 3 minutes. Please finish anything that will involve the membership system, including membership changes or posting of messages.


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
wrgmr114 May 2013 7:40 p.m. PST

Gents,

These are recasts.


auction

auction

auction

auction

Sparker14 May 2013 8:17 p.m. PST

This is bad news, but thanks for posting.

I have written to Peter at Calpe and his mucker Martin Kelly drawing their attention to your post.

If this is piracy then it must be addressed.

Thanks again mate.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP14 May 2013 9:07 p.m. PST

How do you tell? Did you buy some?

Dave

Volunteer Fezian14 May 2013 9:08 p.m. PST

How can you tell these are recasts? They look crisp to me and this seller has a 100% rating on ebay.

wrgmr114 May 2013 9:08 p.m. PST

He was selling on TMP and I bought some from him.
I contacted Peter letting him know. He never got back to me. Front Rank and Foundry did though.

Bill locked his account after I sent him photos of the recasts.

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP14 May 2013 9:19 p.m. PST

how does one ascertain beyond doubt, they are "recasts"? what are the features that reflect this?

enfant perdus14 May 2013 10:04 p.m. PST

The most common feature I'm aware of is the use of different alloys. Sometimes it's a harder, more brittle type. I unwittingly purchased some Foundry recasts (only a dozen, luckily) and they actually made a clanging sound when they banged together! Definitely not the alloy that Foundry used, or anyone else I know of. Some recasters use softer or poorer quality alloys, which typically means loss of detail and very bendable/breakable arms, legs, weapons, etc.

wrgmr114 May 2013 11:15 p.m. PST

Different metal as ep says.
Also a gamer in our group bought some from him and one had a piece of rubber mold stuck in it.

EagleSixFive15 May 2013 2:02 a.m. PST

What sort of rubber was stuck to it, what colour was it?

For a recaster to get perfect gun wheels, well thats darn good if you ask me.

Company D Miniatures15 May 2013 2:13 a.m. PST

Manufacturers can change metal surely?

plutarch 6415 May 2013 2:33 a.m. PST

I remember his advertisements in the Marketplace and, being a big Calpe fan (like many here), would always have a quick browse.

I assumed he was an internet-based shop importing in bulk from Peter, and reselling them to the local US market. Not that I have purchased any myself as I have always been very happy dealing with Peter directly.

If these are knock-offs, and we have to thank wrgmr1 if they are, why would one try to advertise them here.

It's not like anyone wouldn't notice eventually, surely?

Talk about taking brashness to a new level…

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian15 May 2013 3:23 a.m. PST

I bought some figures from him when he was here and while the though crossed my mind (from volume more than anything) I could not convince myself either way.

sma194115 May 2013 5:59 a.m. PST

If the Calpe's are all recasts, I would tend to think the other manufacturers' figures are likely recasts as well. A shame really, because he seems to have some talent with mold making.

Mike Petro15 May 2013 6:02 a.m. PST

In one auction he states they are 'used', and unpainted. I've never seen a description like that before. Definitely odd.

Personal logo Endless Grubs Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2013 6:12 a.m. PST

I bought several units of Foundry and Front Rank earlier this year when he was on TMP marketplace. I'll have to take a look. What a bummer for everyone if this is true!

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian15 May 2013 6:53 a.m. PST

Well, I just looked at about a dozen unpainted figures under a magnifying glass – looking for telltail multiple mold lines – and it took me 6-7 figures to find one that made me go "hm….. is that or is that not a double mold line". If they are recasts, they are very good.

EagleSixFive15 May 2013 7:11 a.m. PST

It does not matter a damn if they have double lines or not as molds are generally made from masters that have been cast themselves. Threads like this get my goat, unless they can be 100% identified as recasts then all you have done is tar and feather a person for nothing and cost him sales. As for them being classed as *used*, well they are second hand, not coming from the original source so can't really be classified as *new*.

heavyhorse15 May 2013 7:22 a.m. PST

recasts are made from existing retail figs..depending on the alloy, because the master fig is of harder metal than production figs. the mold size shrinks when being used to make new molds..they are not as crisp and seem slightly flater..you can fake this by taking one each making a mastermold of you pirate building them upafter they come out and using the built up figs to do your production mold..but it's a lot of work

Old Contemptibles15 May 2013 7:47 a.m. PST

"used and unpainted" never heard that one before. I would consider them used if they were painted and used in a game. But does anyone care if they are used? Very strange.

Personal logo Endless Grubs Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2013 8:05 a.m. PST

I have been in contact with seller and shared with him this thread and concerns. He assured me that he was operating on the level and that he was NOT selling re-casts. The figs he is selling were either collected/purchased directly by him or via estate sales. I am only a customer of his and have no other personal or professional relationship with the seller. I'm merely sharing his response at this time.

wrgmr115 May 2013 9:13 a.m. PST

Endless Grubs, what else would he say, "I'm a re-caster"

The figures I brought from him here on TMP were very good re-casts, but re-casts non the less. You could see differences in the mold lines and different metal.
Originals were a lighter metal with almost a velvet appearance.
His were shiny.
A gamer in our group found rubber mold in his figure. I've never had a manufacturer do that.

Let the buyer beware.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP15 May 2013 10:05 a.m. PST

Can you show us a picture of the alleged recast that you have alongside an original figure?

HistoryPhD15 May 2013 10:22 a.m. PST

If he buys directly from Calpe at least a portion of what he resells, as he told Endless Grubs, then surely Calpe can confirm that he buys from them.

Princeps15 May 2013 10:59 a.m. PST

I have quite a few Foundry figures, bought directly from them, that had bits of the mold in the figure. Allegations such as this are actionable unless you can prove your accusation is true. I think you would have been better served contacting Calpe directly instead and letting them investigate the matter.

Rdfraf Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2013 11:05 a.m. PST

I have bought figures direct from the manufacturer that had double mold lines.

I really don't know but do manufacturers always us exactly the same mix of metal alloy throughout their manufacturing history?

A Twiningham15 May 2013 11:06 a.m. PST

I have also had figures I bought directly from a couple of manufacturers that had chunks of the mold in them. It is unusual, but by no means a sign of recasting. All molds break down over time.

heavyhorse15 May 2013 12:18 p.m. PST

metal variations happen..companies buy metal in lots and it is not cheap..scrap from the trees that are in the molds are used over and broken miscast figs are back into the pot as well it is not uncommon for bits of rubber to come loose as the molds wear out..the heat and dry lube suck moisture from the molds thus making them more and more brittle..this can also cause double seams…none of what has been stated is solid proof of pirates..I know of where I speak caus I ran a caster for several years

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian15 May 2013 12:47 p.m. PST

Allegations such as this are actionable unless you can prove your accusation is true.

Not exactly. My understanding is that in the US anyway, allegations such as this are actionable if the seller can prove they are false AND can prove that harm was done. There is a subtle difference.

Lion in the Stars15 May 2013 12:57 p.m. PST

A gamer in our group found rubber mold in his figure. I've never had a manufacturer do that.

I have.

deep, nasty undercut on Battlefront resin (bought in the store in BF blisters)

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP15 May 2013 1:06 p.m. PST

One easy way to tell is by looking at the metal entry to the base. Each mould maker has his or her own style be it "pin feed", "rear feed (ouch)", "slot feed" or "ham fisted feed". These can be seen by inspecting the underside of the base. you can either refer to the mould maker himself or identify the style from the above groupings.
Peter Pig uses multiple pin feeds with the larger near the rear of the figure base. the more the figures ring the higher the tin content(good). Brittle figures are the result of mixing metals (can I buy some old solder please) such as by using scrap metal or by using an unsuitable metal such as those with a bismuth base.

Hope this was interesting?

Martin

heavyhorse15 May 2013 1:27 p.m. PST

bismuth will make a crisp casting and brittle as all get out.things don't bend they snap

Brian Smaller15 May 2013 2:23 p.m. PST

I have had double mould lines, bits of rubber and un-crisp castings direct from manufacturers. I would like to see some actual evidence.

idontbelieveit15 May 2013 2:40 p.m. PST

Marking them "used" makes no difference. I had to go back and see whether figs I sold recently I marked as new or used and I marked them used. Who knows what to mark them?

I guess I'm skeptical too.

The Kingmaker15 May 2013 3:59 p.m. PST

market forces should be allowed to work in the problem of the alleged figure recaster.

wargamers and figure buyers who object to recasting or who believe they are recasts should not buy them. the other issue is that manufacturers and designers should protect their own interests if they view piracy as an issue.

so far this has been the typical TMP circus sideshow. either let market sanction take effect against the alleged recaster or let the manufacturers step up and defend their own interets.

absent these two remedies, we ought to lay off the supposed figure criminal until some definitive proof emerges.

Personal logo Morning Scout Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2013 4:26 p.m. PST

Does not seem to be much in the way of proof here. At this point we should assume the seller is on the up and up until something can be verified. A note to the manufacturer and the seller would have been better then calling the guy out here. If the poster is right then I guess kudos to him, but if he is wrong he probably owes the seller a bit more then an apology. Until more information is available one way or the other this really is just a circus.

Jemima Fawr15 May 2013 4:44 p.m. PST

As has been said – this is simply not proof.

I've had chunks of rubber, multiple mould-lines and variable metal quality on occasion from several good-quality manufacturers. It means nothing.

spontoon15 May 2013 4:54 p.m. PST

I've had bits of rubber in figures from original manufacturers. Plus metal variations. I'm sure most of us have pirated figures in our collection we don't know about! I have some Minifigs Napoleonic Poles that upon inspection of the Minfigs catalogue, don't exist! Obviously recasts of head-swaps. Although disappointed, I haven't been aggrieved enough to melt them down for musket balls!

I seem to remember a magazine article about a White Metal Casting Society featuring the Perry's to combat this problem a few years ago.

Maddaz11115 May 2013 4:57 p.m. PST

Not going to say anything about the op, but as someone who runs moulds, I can say….

1 not all of my figures are in the same metal, since over a moulding session the metal dropped into the mould changes fractionally. If I purchased metal from the same supplier throughout and did not add a small amount of tin extra, then the metal would be more consistent.

2 some of my figures have multiple moulding lines, since I am on secondary moulds, and the mastermould might not have been cleaned as well as I might have liked….

3 different figures in my packs may have different venting and feed points even if they are the same figure…. since when the mould maker put in multiple figures he would sometimes put them in different orientations.

John de Terre Neuve15 May 2013 5:20 p.m. PST

I must say somewhat of a disturbing post.

I have bought several Perry miniatures from him. I did ask where he got the figures, as I was curious. Here is his response to me:

Hi John, I've been collecting for a long time and I inherited even more. I have a lot of lead. :)

I wish there we something a little more substantial to hang our hats on. It would be nice to hear from one of the original manufacturers.

I would feel quite badly if they are indeed recasts.

John

Lord Hill15 May 2013 5:21 p.m. PST

There's a guy who makes atrocious copies of Foundry Napoleonics and sells them on ebay they're usually undercoated black to make the lack of detail less obvious in the pics.
When you look at his purchase history it's all large ingots of metal!

Oh and coincidentally, he also seems to have an endless supply of "Genuine Waterloo musketballs" which he sells by the bag full to suckers around the world.

I told Foundry but I don't know what they can do really.

wrgmr115 May 2013 6:11 p.m. PST

Calpe original on top:

picture

Front Rank Original on right:

picture

Dexter Ward16 May 2013 2:23 a.m. PST

Since they are different figures, that doesn't prove much.
I've seen quite a lot of variation in metal used even by the same manufacturer. Nothing here has proved these are recasts.

GeoffQRF16 May 2013 2:40 a.m. PST

Double mould lines doesn't mean much – an original master is moulded into a master mould. Those casts are then used to make a production mould so by the time you get to buy it, it could well have gone through two moulding processes and three casting processes.

Bits of rubber doesn't mean much either, unless you know what type of moulds Calple always use, and this is different – i.e. if they always use black rubber and this is pink RTV. Moulds get old, worn and bits break off (I feel much the same sometimes).

Manufacturers do periodically change metal, either due to costs or because they need metal and the metal supplier does them a good deal on whatever they have they are trying to clear off the floor. A more 'tinny' ring indicates the presence of more tin, but not necessarily anything untoward.

I tend to be more suspicious about never-ending supplies acquired from dubious sources like estate sales. We occasionally see large batches of FK go on places like Ebay, but we can often trace back to the original purchase.

We are always wary when we get large orders for one off of everything… but short of refusing to sell (and watching them carefully) what else can we do?

flashman2 Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2013 8:49 a.m. PST

So all those that bought these recast figures, send them to me. You will be able to sleep better tonight. I will accept them, put them in a lead vat, sprinkle salt on them and cap the vat so no bad juju escapes!

Personal logo Morning Scout Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2013 9:53 a.m. PST

Those figure comparisons don't help much.

Long Valley Gamer Supporting Member of TMP16 May 2013 11:47 a.m. PST

Agree with Dexter…those pictures do not tell you much.
Flashman…good one…

bigrig16 May 2013 12:36 p.m. PST

Does anyone know if it is possible through insider action to release or get hold of factory seconds. substandard casts not released by a manufacture but somehow passed onto the open market.

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian16 May 2013 2:27 p.m. PST

When I toured Reaper they said seconds go right back into the pot.

GeoffQRF17 May 2013 1:40 a.m. PST

Metal can be melted back down and recylced, so you are unlikely to find genuine metal 'seconds'. Resin is a little different as once it is mixed there is not much else you can do, so a resin miscast might be available – we occasionally have miscast resin helicopter fuselages we make available (usually sat on our trade stand at shows)

Porkmann11 Jun 2013 4:30 a.m. PST

Good for Reaper. Sadly many manufacturers seem to slip miscasts in the packs and hope the buyer doesn't notice :-(

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.