"battlefront Viet Nam models usable for 1986 conflict?" Topic

Would the helicopters made by Battlefront for their fow Viet Nam expansion work for cold war era conflicts (mainly around 1986)? If so, would I be able to use the shark-mouth decals on the nose of the helicopters or were those "not allowed" after Viet Nam?

Finally, besides the M113, are there any current or planned Battlefront models that would make the jump to 1986 without glaring inaccuracies? Thanks.

All the Soviet vehicles (PT-76, BTR-50, T-54/55, etc) were still being used in Europe by Warpac nations.

82nd Airborne were still using Sheridans in 86, though the Cavalry Regts had got rid of theirs by 82 or thereabouts.

M113s were used by just about everybody in NATO apart from the UK and France. There were lots of minor differences though, such as the West Germans replacing the .50s with MG3s and so on.

UH-1s were also very common throughout NATO (though mainly the stretched variants), but not the gunship variants.

OH-6s were still being used by Denmark in 1986.

M48A2s were still being used by one or two of the southern NATO nations in a reservist role, but West Germany had converted all hers to 105mm-armed M48A2GA2 and most of the rest had upgraded to M48A5.

M41s were still being used by some of the southern NATO nations and Denmark, though Denmark had radically modified them and changed the appearance t make a very nice-looking tank (this model being the M41 DK1):

Norway was still using the Chaffee, albeit mounting the 90mm Cockerill gun and designated as the NM-116 Tank Destroyer:

QRF make every vehicle you'd want for 1986. Why not get exactly what you want?

I do get the QRF stuff (from you Mark) but I also try to support my FLGS and he carries the Battlefront stuff (not QRF).

I was also disappointed with one of the QRF Abrams that I got- it had separate side skirts that fit horribly (while the other 6 I ordered had side-skirts molded on already) so I'm not sure about QRF quality. OTOH, the T-80's from QRF look fine.

We can sort that out for you.

↑↑↑ That's some impressive customer service right there… ↑↑↑

I game 28mm, but if I ever play 15, I'll keep your company in mind

Helos of Vietnam era would be way out of use for SOF and 1st echelon and TIER 1 and 2 forces. Blackhawks by that time were pretty much all we say at Bragg at that time. We did jump a UH-1 from the National Guard in Maryland up to 2001. But I know of any active duty units that were still flying Hueys by that time. Almost all helos but that time had only standard US Army markings so no, unless you were Rambo you would not have shark teeth paint job.

VR
James Mattes

Oh and the Danes were still using Centurions – many had been upgraded and looked a bit different, but there were still plenty of unmodified Mk 3s & 5s knocking around, including some 20pdr tanks alongside the 105mm tanks.

25th ID was using UH-1's as late as 1989, although they were being slowly replaced with the UH-60. They were painted in basic dark olive drab with black markings. No color that I can remember, certainly no unit insignia on the nose or shark mouths.

Small addition to Mark Davies rather complete list:

T-34/85M was still in service at least in Bulgaria and Romania, and even in East-Germany there were still 66 units in storage at 1986 (s: Siegert & Hanske: Kampfpanzer der NVA). Some sources state that there would been even more of them when the unification took place (off-the-record vehicles used as OPFOR or as semi-static memorials – lack sources, tho). The model itself aint too much to say hurray for, at least the "starfish" wheels look rather odd..

And small notofication with those battlefronts "T-54" – its actually T-55 with dushka. For the use in WPACT, its good for reservists, bad for first-line troops. In NVA (east-german armed forces) the appereance of T54/55 retrofits & upgrades in order of appereance:

T-54A (1959)
T-54AM (1962)
T-55 (1964)
T-55A (1967)
T-54AZ (1978-planned upgrade, only small number of vehicles were upgraded)
T-54AMZ(1978-planned upgrade, only small number of vehicles were upgraded)
T-55AM2(1985 – upgrade of excisting fleet)
T-55AM2P (1986- upgrade of excisting fleet)
T-55AM2PB(1988- upgrade of excisting fleet)

These numbers are based on the info gained via another history-related forum, and they are not my work in anyway. source – in finnish

So for the reservists the basic T-55 would propable be okay, as far as I know the upgrade programs (AM2 to AM2PB) were never completely completed. Propably same thing apply for the poles too, and for the soviets themself. IIRC, the Kontakt-1 started to appear in mid 1980s to soviet T-55s, but again, Im quite sure this wasnt complete fleet-upgrade, more like something reserved for marines etc.

PT-76 (without dushka) and BTR-50 should be fine as they are.

R Mark Davies

Interesting comments regarding the range of Centurions still operating in mid 80's

Do you have a source for this as I would like to follow this up

kabrank:

fex. link

MK90 beat me to it. That's an excellent site.

The Danish Cent Mk 5/1 with 20pdr were found in the Tank Battalion of the 4th Zeeland Mech Regimental Group and the Tank Squadron of 1st to 3rd Zeeland Infantry Regimental Groups. Landzeeland Command was firmly at the back of the queue when it came to new equipment, losing out to Landjut Command, which was expected to have to fight first-line Soviet and Warpac forces in Schleswig-Holstein. Thus, all Denmark's Leopard 1s and possibly all of her upgraded Cent Mk 5/2 DK1s went to Landjut.

As mentioned above, there was a Cent upgrade programme, converting them to Mk 5/2 (105mm) standard and possibly some in Zeeland to Mk 5/2 DK1 (105mm with improved fire control) standard, but some unmodified Mk 5/1s with 20pdr guns were still around to be retired in 1990. It's just a guess, but the majority of Cents in Zeeland in 1986 were probably Mk 5/2.

The Tank Squadron of the independent Bornholm Force was even operating unmodified M41s well into the 1980s (I don't know if they ever did receive improved M41 DK1s).

Of course the South Africans were using Cents (called 'Olifant') in combat as late as 1989, again including some 20pdr-armed tanks (Olifant Mk 1) among the 105mm (Mk 1b) tanks.

The Netherlands was also operating Cents at the start of the decade, but all had been retired by 1982 or thereabouts.

20Pdr cannon means what? 105mm, 120mm???

Irish Marine:

84mm – as far as I know, it was extremely potent weapon of its time, still able to wrestle against T-55.

Irish,

It's a calibre from the Days of Empire when we were allowed to name our own calibres and thus annoy Johnny Foreigner without worrying about NATO Standardisation. ;o)

As MK90 says, it was a very potent 84mm gun. More than capable of taking on T-54/55/62, but definitely would have struggled (to put it mildly) against T-64/72/80. The main anticipated opponent for Landzeeland was going to be Soviet and Polish Naval Infantry, with nothing heavier than a T-55, so they were more than adequate for that role, though would have been firmly out of their depth in Landjut.

Just to add to the above – the two Tank Battalions of the Zeeland Mechanised Division (which was the only division in Landzeeland Command) did receive Leopard 1 DKs in 1989, so a lot of Cent Mk 5/2s would have been cascaded down to the independent Zeeland Regimental Groups at that time.

Only 90 Cent Mk 5/2s were upgraded to the Mk 5/2 DK1 standard (from 1985 onward). That's only enough for around 7-8 squadrons, which was only just enough for the Landjut Command. It's therefore unlikely that many (if any) were passed on to Landzeeland Command.

According to a couple of sources, ALL of Denmark's M41s were upgraded to M41 DK1 standard between 1985 & 87, so it would appear that the Bornholm Squadron did get the upgrade, though they were probably at the back of the queue, after the Landjut and Landzeeland Recce Battalions' M41s.