"Torpedo Reloads?" Topic

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know of a site or source that lists reloads, if any, carried by ships in the pre-dreadnought era?

I have checked all my resources, including Conway´s, Brassey´s, and Jane´s, and the best I came up with was an occasional mention in Conway´s, when the number carried was unusual. Google has resulted in limited success across the internet, but nothing definitive. Ideas?

As far as I know reloading torpedo tubes was only done in larger ships (battleships and cruisers) and submarines. Torpedo boats did not reload, since they had no cargo space for spare rounds and no way to fit the hoisting equipment.

That´s what I thought too, but I saw in Friedman´s US Destroyers book an early TB with space for one reload. I wonder how they would handle such a thing at sea under battle conditions, and probably at night. Not for the faint of heart!

Impressive. Even on a cruiser reloading tubes in an active sea under fire must have been quite a feat.

Most (but not all) Torpedo Boats did not carry any re-loads, as noted, there simply wasn't space for them or the gear needed to reload safely in a seaway.

The few that I know of that did were larger and all fleet boats (a few of the French 'High Seas' boats carried a couple of spares). You might also include those large TB that were similar in size to the earliest Leaders or Destroyers – some nations kept using the term Torpedo Boat for what were, in terms of the names used by others, small Destroyers. While not all had spares even then, some did AFAIK.

Re-loading in anything but a calm sea was very difficult even in WW1 aboard a destroyer and even under those conditions was a dammed dangerous operation.

I have my Friedman´s destroyer book out now, and on page 13 there are two examples of torpedo boats having reloads- USS Foote and Rowan, both of which displaced well over 100 tons. So we can safely say second and third class boats would be without reloads.
Still, can´t imagine how the crew would manage reloading the tube while in action.

Now it makes me wonder about larger ships. Would they go to the trouble of putting reloads in something as large as a battleship? I would think protected cruisers would have more than one reload, but armored cruisers I´m not so sure about.
You know it´s funny, in my 35 years of naval gaming, I never once thought about this subject. I´m so shallow.

Still, can´t imagine how the crew would manage reloading the tube while in action.

For one thing, the torpedoes were pretty small.
For another, the reload was often carried in a cradle that fed right into the launcher, so all you had to do was release the stays and slide it into place.

Probably still a pain, but it's not as though the crew had to carry the thing around by hand.
-Kle.

I don't know that I would describe a torpedo about 3m long and weighing over 100kg 'small' – and that was only a 14inch.

In the French boats the spares were stowed in a well I think and did have to be lifted out but later destroyers had them below decks AFAIK. The rails and cradles were a later development.

I suppose a lot depends here on what date you are considering as 'early' or 'late'.

Regarding TBs, I would consider early to be prior to, say, 1885, and late to be the latter 1890s. Which means that my second statement in this thread about seeing an early TB with one spare would be incorrect, as on second look both boats were from the late 90s.

TJ

Some small early TB launched their torpedo from a cradle dropped over the side and had one on each side. It may be that which you are seeing and assuming it to be a 'spare'.

I'm sure the info is out there somewhere but, having scanned through a likely source last night, I found nothing definite. I'll get my copy of Conway History of the ship back next week and see if there is anything in that.

How about this: HMS Lightning 1876:

(model in the Science Museum collection)

Considering she was an historic ship, I should have remembered that layout. She was not an archetype however, far more vessels had tubes/launch cradles amidships as the bow tube was very difficult to launch from in a sea.

Hi Tony, there is always this of course:

But maybe I'm stretching things too far…….!

Really interesting topic though, and I wonder if even capital ships or cruisers would have reloaded torps during actual combat in this era…….

I think I would take Lightning over that!

I wonder too about larger ships with reloads. All of my sources are hit and miss, I wish there was a definitive listing somewhere.

Not sure of the provenance of SteelonSand's pic, but of course, steam picket launches were used by the RN for a torpedo attack in the Dardanelles in a successful attempt to deny submarine E15 after she had grounded under the Turkish batteries.

As to larger ships, bear in mind that most capital ships which carried torpedoes had submerged tubes serviced by a large flat. (Of course, it was the lack of compartmentation in the torpedo flat that is often blamed for the loss of Lutzow at Jutland.) So if a capital ship did fire torpedoes, it was in a much better position to reload them: enclosed space, hoisting gear available from the deckhead, much better working conditions for the men, compared with the tossing, sea-swept deck of a TB or TBD.

Managed to get my book back last night but sadly not a lot of info in there.

The bow tube on Lightning is actually a later addition, originally 'frames' were used. A frame is a cradle that is lowered over the side and the torp launched from it. They were also dropped from a hoist of some sort, not sure exactly how that worked as I couldn't find any pictures.

The Lightning class vessels (similar to the original) all started with 2 torpedos lauched from frames and the 2nd class RN TB had the same. Later designs seem to have varied but two bow tubes was common.

The bow tubes in early craft seem to have been quite close to the deck, sometimes built into the bow with the rear end below decks. This would obviously have made reloading much easier. The French seem tohave gone for this design in their characteristic 'turtleback' designs.

There is little or no mention of reloads however – implied in one or two places but not specifically mentioned. Because the no of torpedos carried is noted on a few vessels it may be that others had no extras but this seems unlikely for larger vessels such as Torpedo gunboats and cruisers, most of these have no reloads indicated.

If I had to make an educated guess I would say that most small TB would not have reloads but some larger ones may have them and early destroyers too, though not many.

Larger ships must have had them if they were to be intended as a serious weapon, it doesn't make sense to have to leave the fleet and return to port to re-arm after firing off a single salvo.

I would agree with your assessment, as I think the smaller TBs would want to launch and run, rather than sticking around to reload. Whereas the PCs would be expected to remain with the fleet, and thus have the ability to make multiple attacks.

My Conways 1860-1905 gives the same info as your History (that´s on my wishlist btw, would you recommend it if I already have the three All the World´s Fighting Ships?).

The whole of the 'History of the Ship' series is worth having but the 'Steam, Steel and Shellfire' volume is possibly one of the better ones. Another useful (and very interesting read) is D K Brown 'Warrior to Dreadnought'.

I'm in the position now that I have too many unpainted figures to dare get more and very close to more books than I have space for but I would still get both if I didn't already have them.

Brown I have, and it is indeed excellent. I have been drooling over Steam, Steel and Shellfire for quite some time now, so now I must wait for a good strategic opportunity to get it past the wife.
The Conway books were not easy to slip under her radar, and I imagine this one will be no exception! A pity too, as I just placed a big-ish order with Amazon for the summer.

TJ – I get the kids to buy me tokens/Amazon Gift vouchers for Xmas & B'day. My significant other then has no idea that I'm spending about 4 times as much as the vouchers are worth.

You are the clever one, aren´t you!

Per a Navy vet…and I know he is not old enough to get complete info on any ship pre 1910. "Heat of Battle" reloads were just not done. It was way more effective to just swing the ship around and go again from the other launcher/tube. As far as the number of reloads on hand, that was usually more of a factor of the expected resupply time, not so much a factor of space on hand.