"Salute - ok." Topic

A short review of my feelings of Salute 2013.

A poor show, with some great displays marred by poor lighting at the venue.

Few games seemed to encourage participation, and some were static displays (some of which were incredible to look at – but it is a wargame show)

Some of the empty tables (that should have been games) were annoying.. and this happens at a lot of shows.

There did not seem to be a lot of room at some stands, and some were difficult to find because their signage was dwarfed by a neighbouring banner or flag that extended out and across access to an adjacent stall.

New products – well I have to say I did not see anything new that impressed me all day.

Other people have talked of bargains – but I must have missed them, since most prices were the same as at my local store (Wargames Emporium.)

I thought the on site food and drink was ridiculously priced, and the venue was still underwhelming in all respects – pigeons flying overhead inside does not impress me at all.

Big might not be beautiful – I still much prefer the quality at Partisan, and the gaming experience of Triples.

Salute – ok – but not brilliant. 5-6 out of ten.

(it loses a point as being a very long day out for us in the Midlands, on public transport – especially when an incident at St Pancras means you have to take three extra trains to make the journey home, and arrive home nearly one and a half hours late)

Purchases – food and non alcoholic drink – £20.00 GBP-00.

Some tents and Gabions from Renedra £14.00 GBP, and nothing else.. not a dice, base, figure, rules system. terrain piece – nothing.

Thankfully for the industry it seemed busy, and a number of traders said they were having a good day.

I must admit this was the first Salute I've attended at Excel. I went to Kensington and to those at Olympia. Compared to those venues I thought excel was totally soulless. I understand the size of Salute dictates the hall but the lighting and acoustics were awful. I was only there a short time but I felt sorry for the guys running the one game I did play as we could hardly hear them shouting.

I brought a mate who'd never been before and despite me ballsing up the return ticket (we had a little over 2hrs) he loved it(as did I) and while the ticket line was long, it flowed well, maybe in line for 15mins considering the length of the queue that was an awesome feat of organisation. I don't think you can critise lighting and then compliment Partizan (love that show too)Kelham Hall is notorious for poor lighting and I think Sheffield is also a tad dark and I can't quite accept the venue souless and be buzzing with voices?. Ultimately it's a personal choice, but maybe if you hadn't been delayed you may have been in a better buying mood. I hate wasted trips, once went to Fiasco and walked round the show twice in 30mins had lunch went home (Preston) and I've had similar experiences at Derby and Partizan, just sods law. Anyhoo each to their own I guess, it would've been good to meet up with other TMPers, but I would've missed it anyway, due to return train issues.

I think I made a mistake – I should have said that the bargain prices were either the same or more expensive than at my local store.

The Too Fat Lardies new game and the crowd around it was fantastic – one of the handful of exceptions.

I have done every Salute since '88 and the accoustics at Excel can indeed be very fatiguing. The floor is also hard on your feet all day – nevertheless it is a matchless gathering of trade, societies, clubs and enthusiasts and Salute deserve some credit for continuing to put it together every year, accomodate us all and keep us safe.

OK: it is very much a corporate event these days, commercially driven demonstrations next to big brand stands that can sell the product. Some will inevitably like it that way (as some people's interests are brand driven) …

Even so, there were plenty of participation games, club demos and privateers to keep it interesting and quirky – and a good cross section of the pesonalities. Also nice to touch base with French and Belgian friends most of whom find the more intimate regional shows too far inland.

9/10 from me – but then I missed loads of it as I was mostly yacking with old and new friends (so could have done with a second day*) …

Phil
*ironically – as I'm not sure that all of the 2-dayers actually do sustain our interest all weekend …

I understand the practical reasons for Excel,
But it is one ugly baby.

I had a great day. I spent the entirety of it running a game and so saw next to nothing of the rest of the event (looking at three traders for no more than five minutes each [and buying nothing as I didn't have time] looking at three other games was all I managed) but what I had a great time doing was meeting face to face some people who post here (especially those whose work I greatly admire) and – albeit briefly – reaquainting myself with friends in the hobby that I see only rarely.

Top of it – for me – was one of the members of the public who played our game with his daughter (couldn't have been more than eight or nine years old) who thoroughly enjoyed blowing things up for a couple of hours. Cheered me up no end!!

For me it's just really good to get out and meet gamers and enjoy the buzz of a show (even though we found a pigeon cack on the scenery when we were packing up).

But then I tend to like most shows I go to. Last Sheffield I went to in 2011 was good. So was SELWG this year.

Dunno: perhaps I'm just looking for different stuff from some people. I just really like being in a room with over six thousand like minded souls…

John T

I would agree about the light, but this is probably an age related thing, because as we get older one needs more light to be able to see as well. I found it very distressing not being able to focus without glasses, which I guess means I need to remember that this is a venue where I need my glasses, which I only normally need for reading.

Sigh, getting older.

To Maddaz111 – thanks for coming to the show, sorry that the train service, lighting, carpeting and food didn't live up to your expectations but there's not a lot we can do about those.

Going to the things we can control to some extent – as always, we are trying to strike a balance between big traders (the corporate element, as Phil so accurately puts it) and smaller manufacturers. I think that 15 of our 151 traders were Salute first-timers this year, and that's not bad in a recession.

Around half of the games are put on by clubs from the UK and continental Europe. The other half are put on by traders, who are obviously trying to sell their product (they would go out of business pretty quickly if they didn't). Only two are from the South London Warlords – the enormous 'Hammering Route 66' and the action-man scaled 'Jason and the Argonauts'.

We don't see any others before the day (pretty much – some people are good enough to send us pictures, others are already doing the show circuit). We got a few sub-par games this year, but that's life, to be honest. Rough and smooth, hot and cold, there's not a lot we can do without going all heavy on people, and that's not really very much fun for anyone, is it!

And the pigeon. Yes, there was a damn pigeon (or two?) on the loose inside the arena. It made a bombing run on the city board on our Hammers game, and scored a direct hit on a building…

For many more comments, see our Farcebook page at facebook.com/SLWarlords (and yes, I know there are those who don't want to go near facebook, but it's a useful medium for us, and you don't have to sign up to read the pages)

Cheers,
Colin
South London Warlords

I thoroughly enjoyed it. First time at Salute for four years. I loved Olympia, and hate Excel so much after the first Salute there it just put me off.

I needed some stuff and wanted to drop stuff off to customers so I decided to go this year.

Yes, the lighting is still a nightmare. I tried to buy some Silflor and though it was in the correctly labelled pack it just didn't look like the stuff I've got. I'll order it online and pay postage. I'm still getting used to vari-focal specs and I swear the lights really didn't help me at all. The floor is hard, and the building very hangerlike and soulless.

The queue was huge, but it did seem to move quickly and was well organised. I'm British and lets face it we aren't usually phased by it. There are worse things in life than queueing for 15 mins. I might go the queue buster badge next time.

I always take a pack up/snap tin. Food prices are ridiculous. Save yourself a few bob and spend it with the traders and not refreshment vendors.

I thought there was a real buzz about the place and lots of show deals to be had if you were prepared to walk around and compare.

The TFL game crowd was great as usual and a nice chance to catch up with my chums off their Yahoo group.

Some very nice games on display Waterloo, Pacthod and some others.

I still think Salute is THE Mecca for wargamers. The UK is still the centre for wargaming/manufacturing and at Salute you can see the variety in the industry which makes the hobby diverse and rewarding. It was so nice to see so many children there with Dad.

A firm 9/10 for me. Definitely going next year.

Well said Colin. Games on the day are always "Hobson's Choice". Remember these people from gaming clubs have come from all over the country and even europe to put these game on almost entirely at their own expense. They do what they can.

And yes – we did indeed call in an orbital artillery strike on the day from our satellite Pigeon One! Made all the difference!!

John T

Loved every minute of it. And as far as the venue goes. You make a choice – go big or stay small and refuse people. We've had to make the same choices.
Anyway for us Belgians it's a great day, if not to meet the other Belgians that are in the room,because we only have about 2 shows in Belgium.
I admit I like to go to smaller shows as well, because of the more relaxed atmosphere but hey..
Our game was occupied until the last minute and that's what we do it for. To have a great day out.
I'll be back next year.

Great Show
I could not have made a better job of it, so happily give
10/10. A lot of hard work carried out by the Warlords.

thanks

martin

I thoroughly enjoyed it this year, more so than the last couple: no idea why… maybe I was just in a better mood!!

Some ramblings on my day out here….

link

Alastair

Are you kidding me? I can't believe some of these complaints. You're blaming the organizers for the price of food and drink charged by the venue? Really? You think the organizers set those prices? And they control public transport?

As an American who has been lucky enough to have been at more than his share of these – some of you people don't know how lucky you are to have a show of this size and quality. We freaking dream of having a show like Salute and some of you moaners would do well to sit out a year or two and learn to appreciate what you've got.

10/10 – as always. Congratulations on another GREAT show.

John

Loved the mugs by the way, they could be regular income for the club. So whats the theme for next year? what too soon? ;)

You're blaming the organizers for the price of food and drink charged by the venue? Really? You think the organizers set those prices?

Did he say the organisers were to blame though?
I don't believe he did blame anyone, just that, and I quote.

I thought the on site food and drink was ridiculously priced

We freaking dream of having a show like Salute and some of you moaners would do well to sit out a year or two and learn to appreciate what you've got.

Maybe so, maybe he has different ideas of enjoyment and fun to you, people are allowed to think as they do and to voice those feelings.

I also did not spot him having a go at any one indvidual on here unlike some.

I await to be scolded for having an opinion too.

Michael.

My feet aches from wandering around a great show for about 6 hours, my wallet has shrunk and my debit card is scared to com out into the light!

Perhaps next year the chaps could lay on a sedan chair to carry me from stand to stand!

Tally Ho!

'As an American who has been lucky enough to have been at more than his share of these – some of you people don't know how lucky you are to have a show of this size and quality. We freaking dream of having a show like Salute and some of you moaners would do well to sit out a year or two and learn to appreciate what you've got.'

Well said, couldn't agree more, fantastic show, the only compliant was the standard of some of the games, c'mon guys, it's Salute, make a bleedin' effort, a green cloth with some lichen thrown over it is a poor showing. Also the games set up, but not played, complete and utter waste of time, pet hate of mine, but, no matter how great it looks, none of them up to the standard of a mediocre diorama, at a modelling show. The Waterloo game?, lot of wasted effort.

Had a great day, spent too much, got some inspiration to put on a game next year, chatted to a lot of mates I haven't seen for ages, purchased food, and drink, outside the venue, in the concourse, didn't cry at the bill.

I thought numbers seemed to be up, it seemed like a LOT of people were there.

John

I was involved in putting on a demonstration game (Nachod 1866) for the Continental Wars Society, and so didn't see as much of the show as I would have liked. That said, it seemed to me that this year was a real revival compared to the last two or three years. I was very impressed with the organisation which got us in to set up, and loved the interaction with the "punters" during the day. A great and impressive amount of expertise on display on our very esoteric area of interest. The best part was the hugely impressive young teenagers who had picked up massive amounts of expertise from computer games, and put many of us old f..ts to shame. Today I am footsore and hoarse, but had a GREAT time. Thanks Warlords!

Mollinary

Excellent day – spent almost 6 hours there and spent a fortune.

Felt that some stands were a little crowded (particularly Gripping Beasts), but that it was wonderful to see some companies back with larger stands than previous years – clearly many companies are doing a good trade.

My big issue remains the Bring and buy which I personally feel is a waste of hall space. Its far too crowded and impossible to see anything on it – but then again I find B&Bs deeply unpleasant at most shows – too many people, too little space to see the kit and a very jostling mosh pit of an experience. Perhaps some kind of aisles format, or split it into a couple of smaller bits – e.g. a GW bring and buy, a historical bring and buy and a books bring and buy may help make it easier for people?

I had a great time trading at the show for the first time.Managed to sneek away a couple of times to have a look around but missed out on seeing loads of cool things.
It is nice to chat with people and show the range off too.Good to put faces to names from the forums too.
Best thing I saw at the show is the new Cuthulhu stuff which will be going up on a kickstarter.One to watch out for for certain.
Cant wait for 2014 show and hope it goes just as well.

I had a fantastic day. Huge thanks to the Warlords for the colossal work they put in to making it such a successful day, and to all the traders and gamers who worked their socks off too.

What a fantastic and vibrant hobby we have.

Henry
Miniature Wargames with Battlegames

Have to agree with the Bring and Buy comments. I know they're always a bit of a scrum but the B&B yesterday seemed exceptionally crowded and unpleasant. Not the fault of the SELWG team who seemed to be doing their best to sort things but it proved virtually impossible to have a look at things while trying to dodge the gits in the crowd with their humongous rucksacks!

I'm increasingly of the opinion that B&Bs are becoming a bit redundant in an eBay world. I saw a suggestion on another forum that maybe splitting off the GW stuff and everything else inot 2 separate stands might reduce the scrum a bit?

hubby came back from Salute and said' It's still the best wargame show in the world, and nothing will ever change that'

and 'We can still learn a lot from the Warlords'

I wish we had something this sized here in Australia…but population dictates….

I've no complaints about the venue (however the fact that it's only 15 mins away by bus from where I live helps!). There's plenty of space to wander around – have people forgotten how awful the experience used to be at Kensington with narrow, crowded aisles almost all day?

Have to say this was the first year I spent hardly anything though. Usually I have found one or two treasures to part me from my cash but there was just a sense of "same old same old" this time. Lasting impression was of Zvezda's "Art of Tactic" sets everywhere. I had a feeling that economic circumstances had produced a very narrow, conservative field but on the other hand it could just be me. Perhaps I've just got all the stuff I need already?

I'm sorry for commenting my feelings that seem to run contrary to all the people calling it a Mecca for wargames.

I don't think the queue was a problem, and I was in it for an hour because I was early.

I don't think the good games were bad, I think they were exceptional. But there were a number of people who didn't talk or anything, or left a static table on display.

Some of the traders were good, and some of the show offers might have been interesting to me if I was a newcomer to the hobby.

I'm getting older and more jaded, and I think I might give salute a miss next year, since it didn't exactly set my world alight this year.

Hi Michael

Did he say the organizers were to blame, though?

When you take a point off a show because you live in the Midlands and there's trouble at a station, yeah, you're pretty much blaming the organizers. And what venue doesn't have ridiculously overpriced food? That's kind of the whole reason food vendors locate in event venues – to maximize profit by charging premium/outrageous prices from a captive audience. To use that to bash the event is ridiculous.

The OP put those opinions on a public forum. He used uncompromising language throughout the review. I thought those specific opinions were very unfair to the event/event organizers and challenged them. That's not having a go or scolding someone – that's disagreeing with them. Do I not get to have my opinions?

John

Didn't go, and not sorry about it

Outrageous prices for refreshment and parking killed it stone dead for me.

Not a wargames show any more, now just a glorofied trade event with a focus on 25/28mm dioraamas not actual war games.

No plans to attend in the future either,

Stifle away ……

Maddazz, no worries mate, I still think your journey tainted your day before you got going. After a bad weekend at Warfare, I came really close to ditching the hobby! I bet if you go next year your opinion will be different. The main thing I like about Salute you get the fullest range of products possible, how many shows do you go to and the majority of traders are agents all selling the same products as each other even the price is the same e.g Vallejo, Warlord, Armypainter, GW, Flames of war. Ok these products are popular but it makes the show very repetitive and a bit dull, Salute always attracts new traders you rarely see anywhere else in the country.

I've been to every Salute since 1990. This year's was efficiently organised as usual, the punters and traders numerous, and some games were good- but the current venue is really duff.
No problem with transport/access etc but it's a barn of a place and rather shabby- detracting from the overall effect of the show.

Although the Excel venue as a whole is reasonably smart- the hall where Salute itself is held has been pretty tatty for a a few years now- maybe better suited to exhibiting a few big things in very low light levels.

I wonder if there is any possibility of returning to Olympia- which seemed to me to have much the best combo of space and ambience?

All that said- Excel is still far better than the dump to which the Derby show has evacuated in the last couple of years. For those who haven't ventured there it's basically an agricultural exhibition hall- freezing cold, oil stained floors, greasy burgers- pretty unappealing overall. Good place to buy a combine harvester- bad place to hold a wargames show.

I've also been going to the Derby show every year since the 1990s but won't bother again while it's at the current venue- whereas I will probably take on the slightly soulless Salute experience again next year.

Sorry (and this goes for the Derby folks too) to the organisers to sound a negative note. I've been involved on a smaller scale in the thankless hard work of organising shows myself in the past- so salutations (as it were) to all who delivered the day- but maybe worth reviewing the venue?

Just my tuppence worth.

I had a good day at Salute – numerous purchases of 15mm Napoleonics, a book, and a copy of the new Miniature Wargames. Yes I could have bought the figures online but then I wouldn't have been able to see the figures first (essential for me when buying anything other than AB).

But I agree that the Waterloo display was a diorama, and not a game. My favourites this year were the 15mm Stalingrad game put on by the wonderfully named Arbuthnots Terra Firma League of Gentlemen, Cravant by the Lance & Longbow Society and the Little Round Top by WI – all of which had super scenery as well as nice figures.

I don't mind corporate games – most of them look very well done (the Victrix 54s were super) and encourage participation – but this year the games mostly seemed to lack the "oohhh" factor. Many of them seemed very nicely done but very small – and at Salute I think the presenters should be aiming for a bit more than that.

And it seemed busier this year – and most of the group I was with at the end of the day were laden with carrier bags (not a normal sight when talking of a bunch of middle aged men).

So not a vintage Salute – but still very good, and a prodigious feat of organisation on the part of the Warlords to make such a big event run smoothly. So I'd definitely like to say thank you to them for enabling one of my few days out attending a show.

Seneffe – you may not realise it but those walls to your left and right as you walk in are retractable. The whole venue is like that. I work for three days in May at a trade show there which used to be about three times the size of Salute (probably twice the size now with the recession). The venue is designed for corporate events where budgets are rather larger – my company spend about £150.00 GBPK for those three days – and we provide our own lighting.

I'd guess that Excel doesn't hold many events organised by a club catering to a niche hobby – I've no idea what the Salute budget is but I'd guess that even for a no frills hire for the day Excel's fees are eye watering. More power to the Warlords for pulling it off on an annual basis.

Guthroth

I think you're very wrong. Lots and lots of party games in scales from 15mm to 1/6th wth everything in between. And demos too.

Sure, lots of trade, but lots of space and lots of games and painting competitions and… well, the list is a long one from medieval reenactment groups to radio controlled tanks.

The food price is central London/Motorway cafe cost. I don't know where you buy your food when you're not at home but it is what it is: central(ish) London in costs and quality.

I won't stifle you sir: you are very entitled to your opinion but I would suggest it's not a very well informed opinion.

Stifle away right back at ya…

John T

EDIT Littlearmies: everything you say is pretty spot on

Every show has pro's and cons and each of those are personal to us as individuals. Whilst I liked Partizan, the dim crowded rooms put me off but i bet theres a contra view that loves the rabbit warren and the "buzz". we all have a view and we should respect those views.

Every year I organise my holidays so I can attend Salute! It is a fantastic event and the eye candy on offer is stunning! Many shows I go to, I spend maybe 2 hours at and in the afternoons those shows are dead and traders are packing up early. At Salute I spend 7 hours looking around (and still miss things) and there is still a buzz late in the afternoon. I also love the fact that there is space to walk around and not get crushed – the average wargamers aversion to soap and armed with an oversized ruck sack makes this creature a danger to life and limb at most shows.

Could Salute be better – of course. B&B for one thing. Why is there no system and signage?! Put all the ancients together, GW together, videos together etc and SIGN IT, I spent too much money and could have spent more.

Thank you to the Warlords – your efforts are much appreciated and long may Salute reign as the Premier UK show.

Don

Despite my post earlier, I will be attending next year and Salutes over the years are usually an excellent show. Many thanks to the Warlords who undertake this monumental task as voluteers. And John T and Colin you are a legends.

My intention was not to knock the club or the show generally. Maybe my comment about it being soulless would have been better expressed as "the venue itself lacked character". It was just like other shows held in leisure centres, but more so. It's just a vast box of a venue. Soul as in heart and soul – not devoid of people.

The space between stalls and around games is great – not the massive scrums of some shows and Salutes at Kensington – I remember with horror the main foyer was usually a daunting task.

Maybe I need to take off the rose-tinted spectacles…

Thank you Warlords for your huge effort to bring us Salute.

Next year, I'll get there earlier.

Mishima

I thank you for all of your comments (specially the nice ones about me, obviously!) but agree with you when you say that the venue is pretty soul less. ExCell is indeed a box: a big ugly box.

The best analogy I can come up with, however, is this. I ride a motorcycle as my every day means of transport and fun it certainly is and soul less it definately isn't. I rode it to the show. But my colleagues brought the game(s) to Salute in their cars. And the traders brought their stuff to Salute in big ugly transit vans and lorries.

For the amount of stuff traders have to bring, a car just isn't big enough and a motorcycle is ludicrous: a big ugly lorry it is then!

Salute used to be in Kensington* and it was small, very cosy and quite nice to look at (for a town hall). With more than 60 traders and 40 games it was a good show for 1500 – 2000 people. More than that and it started to heave.

Salute at Olympia 2 was still nice: it had carpet. It was a pretty (ish) building in an art deco kind of way. We went from one floor to two floors to three floors to, er… all of the floors. It still remained the same nice buiding but was a bear to load in and out of for both the trade and the gamers and – again – we had started to split at the seams with 3000 to 4000 gamers, despite hiring every level of what was fast becoming a rabbit warren (as much of a warren as Kensington had become when we left it).

Salute at ExCel (and I was on committee for the first couple of years and so was involved with both the move and the reasoning behind it) is a big ugly brute. Its a transit van.

But what it is is the only venue that the Warlords can hire that will do the job required.

That means easier access for Traders** with drive in and drop that we never, ever had at Olymipia. It means great transport links for gamers to get to the show. It means food that's, frankly the same price and quality as a motorway service station*** : I happen to think it's pretty good, to be honest.

And it means SPACE. And with the (probably 6000 plus people there on Saturday) that's what you need: Space to move, space to sit and just more space than any where else and – with the moveable walls – almost infinite space to expand if the means and capability ever materialised.

The final thing it has helped encourage, I believe, is signage. After the first year at ExCel when no one could find a trader (because they were used to looking across a small hall and spotting their products), almost every trader, and a lot of games, have signs – big signs – saying who they are and what they are doing.

As someone who introduced the category at Salute for 'Best Presented Game' (ie the one with signs, hand outs and display manterial) it's something I'm very keen on to enable the games to engage with the public and I think the necessities of ExCel – that big ugly transit van of a thing that it is – have helped foster that idea.

I am no longer involved with the oganisation of the day and don't speak for the team but I do have the advantage of some perspective that my previous involvement gives me, plus some distance that my current 'not involved' status allows. I can be a pretty critical member of the Warlords (ask anyone) esecially over something like Salute that I put over 20 years of my life into, and – if the Warlords Committee made a hash of it I'd be the first one to say so, frankly.

I honestly believe that they did a fantastic job this year: a superb job. I certanly couldn't have done a better one.

I hope Salue continues: I think our hobby needs it, I have to say.

John T

* And lots of other places before but let's stick with the analogy!

** Yeah, I know it aint that easy either: had an argument with a very stupid traffic marshal on Friday that ended with me saying "do you realise we pay your wages…"

*** If that's too much bring a packed lunch: I did!

Few games seemed to encourage participation, and some were static displays (some of which were incredible to look at – but it is a wargame show)

I felt the reverse ! There seemed to be a lot more participation games – and more of the "try our rules – buy our game ones" which I quite like as it gives me a chance to try some rules and….maybe buy a game if I like it (one game overdid the hard sell though).

I thought the big demo games (= large dioramas) were far fewer, and also fewer of the "club games" (= we put on a game that we'd run on any club night, ignore everyone who comes to look at it, and still get in for free).

I like that balance. I don't find the really big games inspiring – as I'm never going to set up a 20 foot by eight foot table).

As always – despite being there for 6 hours – I still didn't see everything, and never found one trader I wanted to get to ! I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Are you kidding me? I can't believe some of these complaints. You're blaming the organizers for the price of food and drink charged by the venue? Really?

They choose the venue.

At all the previous venues you could go out at lunchtime and nip in a pub or cafe or general foodshop. At Excel that's not a very practical option.

I knew ExCel food was pricey – I took that into account and just put it down as part of the cost of the day. If it was my first time at ExCel I'd be less sanguine about it. Ditto (a big ditto !) if I was on a tighter budget.

The thing I hate is paying restaurant prices for a self service burger and then having to sit in a dirty crowded area to eat it. If you're paying $15 USD-$20 for your food it would be quite nice to have some staff clean up the seating area every now and again. That's NOT Salute's fault though.

Totally agree with Jon T's comment that the South London Warlords did a fantastic job. I thought it was an amazing show and thoroughly enjoyed it, but I recognise that you can't please everyone and that Excel has some disadvantages. Having said that I think the advantages (especially with regards to access and expandability) far outweigh the negative aspects.

BigLee
blmablog.com

ps. I begrudge spending potential hobby funds on overpriced food so I always bring my own food and drink. I save money and time that way and have more to spend with the traders as a result.

"At all the previous venues you could go out at lunchtime and nip in a pub or cafe or general foodshop. At Excel that's not a very practical option."

Sorry but that is rubbish. I walked to the venue from the cable car and walked past two supermarkets (Tesco and Nisa) and multiple pubs, cafes and restaurants. All within 10 minutes walk of the Salute doors.

I think the better question to ask is where is any venue which has the combination of good food, good access, good transport links and capable of holding 6000 plus people and available at a location in the SE where people would like to go.

I personally dont get the argument on the food price – if its expensive then bring your own? There are supermarkets on the way, so why not just buy (or make) your own lunch and bring a thermos & water?

Sorry but that is rubbish. I walked to the venue from the cable car and walked past two supermarkets (Tesco and Nisa) and multiple pubs, cafes and restaurants.

Like a lot of people I arrived via DLR – the cable car looked fun but would have been quite a bit of a detour to get to (and another £8.60 GBP to travel on). But it's worth knowing there's stuff (shops/cafes) out in that direction. Still not as close as at previous venues, where all you had to do was cross the road from the entrance, but worth knowing. Thanks.

From DLR to ExCel – there isn't that much – the pubs/bistros are about the same as buying in ExCel.

Of course people can bring sandwiches – if they want to. And a thermos, and a picnic hamper I suppose. I just bring a drink and a snack as I don't want to carry stuff around all day.

Well I thought it was the best show I have been to for years. No complaints whatsoever. Well OK the B&B is a nightmare but it is every year.

Travelling in by road. M4, M25, M11 very easy to get to.

Parking £10.00 GBP for 6 hours. No complaints there, very reasonable by todays standards. Bring a big car, share it with your mates, cheap as chips.

We got there about 10:20 with Q buster badges and walked straight in.

Salute is primarilly a manufacturers trade fair. EVERYTHING is there. Yes there are demos and participation games but they are a lesser issue. It is a Trade show. Every trader who is anybody was there.

Seemed busier to me than last couple of years.

Salute is primarilly a manufacturers trade fair. EVERYTHING is there. Yes there are demos and participation games but they are a lesser issue. It is a Trade show. Every trader who is anybody was there.

if it were just a trade fair I wouldn't go, and I'm probably not alone in saying that (although I don't have proof – but I know how to get it….TMP poll suggestions here I come).

I thought I'd add my two pennorth…:)

I thought it was an excellent show. I really enjoyed the day. I thought the atmosphere was very good indeed, and the games I saw and looked at were terrific. I thought the Warlords did an excellent job at the show. I helped set up a game, so I didn't have to queue – so that may have helped. That being said, the arrangements for arriving, unloading and accessing the tables at 7am were perfect. It's difficult to see how this could have been bettered at Excel.

For the Warlords to organise a venue like this, stage the event year after year, and retain good humour and enthusiasm – in my book, that takes huge dedication and is a real achievement.

I think the comments about the venue are fair. I understand where people who don't like the venue are coming from, but I don't happen to be in that group. I quite like the Excel venue. It's certainly grown on me since 2006. The Salute show is steadily finding a home at Excel and is growing into the space. Things may not be perfect all the time, and I'm sure there will be niggles and problems each year. But that's the same with every show I've been to and run games at.

What comes across for me with Salute is that the Warlords have made a bold decision to host at Excel, and they are making the best job of the venue. And that, by itself, I think deserves support.

I had a great day. Spent way too much, but feel better for it, and had a good fun game.

Do I get the impression that smaller games put on by wargames clubs are not welcome, though? I mean, speaking as a club that turned up with more effort put into the research of a game, and a couple of grass mats with some lichen on (we don't really have the resources of a larger club). On the day we got quite a lot of people coming up and talking to us about it, especially since it was the only game of the period there. Reading some comments here, though, maybe Salute is more about the presentation.

Leigh

Thanks for all the people saying I should bring my own food… why? – is it too much to expect decent food at the venue – and not unreasonably priced (for London)

I was travelling for three hours to get to Salute – plus journeys cross London – so by the time I wanted to eat whatever I had packed it would be tasteless mush. I already had a full large backpack of stuff to bring, and would not have wanted to carry more. I got cheaper coffee some way away from the venue as I was leaving – yes more expensive than at home – but still reasonable for London.

I think it was an excellently planned show – and the guide was brilliant.

I found the static displays on well sculpted boards unbearable – unless someone was talking or explaining, Its a wargame show and I like to see gaming.

I have to admit the bargains didn't grab me, and I spent some time chatting to folks who agreed with me about some things that were being pushed as new.

Earlier this year I attended Hammerhead, all the games were participation, the venue was good – dark in parts but small and cosy for 500+ gamers. I don't really like fantasy but enjoyed the mix of traders at hammerhead.

Didn't go to salute last year – had no funds for it, but year before was ok – probably better than this year. It is not the organising committees fault that traders had nothing to interest me this year. I did feel that some traders have slowed down their new releases, and this means that the cult of "oh, shiny, new, must buy. lots." has slowed. I was impressed by some of the plastics on display, but not enough to be convinced to buy them.

This was not my first time at excel or at salute, but I feel I can give it a miss next year and I wont be missing anything, except perhaps some of the great European gamers that make it cross the channel.

The issue with the signage at some stands is something the organisers can take notice of, since if I was a trader I wouldn't want access to my stand being limited by a neighbouring stall building out with banners and stuff. I walked round a section three times looking for a trader, just because the neighbouring stand blocked LOS.

Perhaps the salute organisers might consider putting a list of local dining within ten minutes walk in their next show pamphlet (advertising revenue potential there) – but not being a Londoner I was not going wandering to look for food, when I could be browsing.

Derby last year was held in a similar building – I do not hate it as much, but that did have one issue for me as a trader and that was no cash machine for customers to get more money out..

My Ideal show would be a gencon like event – but that will never happen in the UK.

I said Salute was OK – not great – but not bad. Some of the small provincial shows I have attended have been dire, and would never go again. I hope Triples will be better but it might not be, but I will put up my comments after I have attended.

If I have offended any of the organisers of the show by putting my comments in an open forum and allowing reasonable discussion of them, I apologise in advance, as my intention was not to be critical, but to comment on what I saw with my eyes.

They choose the venue.

From a short list of one…. Salute has long since reached the scale where choice is an illusion – where else would you hold it?

John, my opinion is based on attending the last 4 in a row. In that time I have attended as a punter, run a participation game and I was one of the Vikings in the arena a couple of years back.

For me there is no joy in going there just to buy figures, not least because I know I will be at Campaign, Valhalla, Colours, SELWG and Warfare over the next few months. The fact that a couple of on-line retailers offer Not-At-Salute discounts further reduces the incentive to go.

Even with car sharing it would cost £5.00 GBP in fuel £2.50 GBP for parking plus £11.00 GBP entry fee, and rather spookily that's almost exactly the cost of my order last week to QRF.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the fact that I will – without