"Campaign in Southern Italy and Sicily 1050-1100" Topic

Which armies/troops would you need to wargame this campaign, and do sufficient of the right troops exist in 6mm at the moment?

Regards

I have no idea what models are available in 6 mm. However, for the historical factions involved you might want to consider at least the following:

- Italo-Lombards
- Papal states
- Byzantines
- Sicilian Muslims
- Italo-Normans
- Holy Roman Emperor

Also, some of these factions were a bit factionalised themselves, for example Norman barons had a habit of rebelling against their overlord every now and then. Plus many of the cities were also rather independently minded, and could rebel against their nominal overlords if they thought they could get away with it.

Are all these factions very distinctive in dress and equipment? Bearing in mind I'll be playing 6mm of course.

Regards

My two pence worth in following up Griefbringer's excellent list above would be to look at Baccus' new Norman and Crusades Saracens ranges – I think with differing paint schemes, they should cover most Frankish/Norman and Muslim troops of the time.

I have run a campaign set in Southern Italy and Sicily using very simple rules.
May be you can find it inspirational
Here the rules
link
and here the campaign development
link

Yes, have a look at Baccus. Their Normans are perfect for what you want and are excellent figures. They paint up really nice! As mentioned above, they are about to be joined by a Saracen range.

Some pictures of hunters & soldiers from Muslim Italy & Sicily:
Hunter on an 11th century ivory drinking horn probably made in Muslim Sicily or Southern Italy
Frieze of Hunters over the door of the Church of San Bernadetto, Brindisi, late 11th Century
Morgan Casket, Southern Italy, 11th-12th century
Ivory casket, muslim Sicily or Southern Italy, 11th-12th Centuries
. rear view of the casket
Islamic Sicilian Ivory Casket with Horsemen, 12th Century
Sicilian ivory pyxis, 12th century

MIRROR SITE
Hunter on an 11th century ivory drinking horn probably made in Muslim Sicily or Southern Italy
Frieze of Hunters over the door of the Church of San Bernadetto, Brindisi, late 11th Century
Morgan Casket, Southern Italy, 11th-12th century
Ivory casket, muslim Sicily or Southern Italy, 11th-12th Centuries
. rear view of the casket
Islamic Sicilian Ivory Casket with Horsemen, 12th Century
Sicilian ivory pyxis, 12th century

Note that some have spears with 2 points. They may be Dailami mercenaries. Identifications have been made based on less evidence!

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

I did a campaign on this once years ago. Simplified down to these player mixes:

Two players: one Norman, one Lombard/Papal/Byzantine, taking turns with each, starting with the Byzantine first, then Lombard and finally Papal, then returning to Byzantine. It works, sort of.

Three players: one Norman, one Papal/Byzantine, one Lombard.

Four plus players: add on more Lombards and more Normans.

Add on Muslim "pirates" to instill further chaos.

Once southern Italy is more or less consolidated, the Normans get into Sicily, and you shift gears and have Muslim powers, up to four of them, also not united as the Normans begin their expansion. We did not get that far.

The object of course is to replay the Norman expansion, at the expense of the locals. The Normans do best if they cooperate. That goes too for the Lombards, but the reality was that the Lombard dukes did not cooperate, and the Normans did more or less, even while being rivals in the land grab….

Some pictures of Byzantines:
A Byzantine Casket, early 11th Century
Top – Battle Scene
Detail of Top – Battle Scene
Edges of Top – Spear or Sword & Shield
Front – Sword & Buckler
Detail of Front – Sword & Buckler
Back – Armoured spearman & Psiloi
Detail of Back – Armoured spearman & Psiloi
End 1 – Sword or Javelin & Shield
Detail of End 1 – Sword or Javelin & Shield
End 2 – Sword or Javelin & Shield
Detail of End 2 – Sword or Javelin & Shield

A Byzantine Casket, 11th-12th Centuries
Front – Sword & Buckler
Detail of Front – Sword & Buckler
Back – Hunters
Detail of Back – Hunters
Top – Pecheneg Cavalry
Detail of Top – Pecheneg Cavalry
A Byzantine Auxiliary Light Cavalryman (Pecheneg) perhaps based on this casket

Skylitzes Chronicle, Byzantine Italy, 11th-12th Centuries

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

Take alook at my campaign book on the Normans.

The Norman Conquests, covers the Normans in Eurpope and Italy.

Chris Parker

link

Fifty pages, twenty dollars, *whistle!*

10th century Lombards in chainmail hauberk with round shield and spear.

Lombard knights in an early 11th Century De rerum naturis

Lombard King Rotario Dictating the Law, Codex Legum Longobardorum, 11th century

David in a Polirone Psalter, northern Italy, before 1086AD

'Charlemagne's chess set', Norman Southern Italy, end of the eleventh century
. A large image of one of the knights
Italo-Norman Heavy Cavalryman by Ian Heath based on these chess pieces

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

ThebFatimid stuff is really interesting, particularly the mailshirts that seem to be waist length only. The other interest is the deep shields. Are these or hunting only or or war?

The Byzantine ivory boxes are IMO too classicised to be much use as 11th century source. The panel with the bare chested trousered barbarians is a decade give away.

Controversially, I also doubt the Pechenegs. I didn't used to and there is some interesting later evidence showing a Hungarian wearing long loose over trousers that looks to fall in just the same way as the costume on the BC. Plus the dress is very like those illustrations of Cumans fromn14th century Hungarian chronicles. Oh go on then I'll believe them.

A hunter would have little need for armour and shield, so I would assume they are the normal gear of a soldier (who is hunting). Would an ordinary footman have 2 sets of armour?

Here is my collection of Cuman and Hungarian Soldiers in the Saint Ladislaus legend for comparison.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

Thanks very much for all the great info.

Regards