"French in white" Topic

I am helping a friend who is starting in the hobby and has limited painting skills as yet. I am wondering how common it was for French units to wear white in the peninsula.

Regards

Stanley

I don't think any French troops in the Peninsular wore white. The white uniform was that of the Ancien Regime.

In c1804-08 there was an experiment to cloth the French infantry in white uniforms due to the lack of indigo from India which was stopped by British blockade. This was very unpopular.

I do not know whether this was worn in the Peninsular but there were some march battalion etc.. used in 1808. The quality of the French troops were very poor and Baylen resulted.

There were Dutch and Italian troops in Spain. These would have had white uniforms.
Stephen

Also, it was the habit of many French infantry units to march and fight in their waistcoats becuse of the heat. For the line infantry and many of the light infantry regiments this would have been whaite. You just need the correct figures.

Yes, The habit could be rolled and they would march in their waistcoats.
Stephen

Does he have to paint French? How about early war Spanish? Or Austrians?

The 15th Line served in the Peninsula, in the IInd Corp, along with the 2nd Light, the 4th Light, and the 36th Line. Boucquoy has a "card" of a grenadier of the 15th in white habit, some facings black, white overalls as I recall. It may have been only one battalion.

My "stuff" is packed away, so I can't specify if collar, cuffs, lapels, etc were black.

GdeP

Thank you all for your help. He brought some Man at war French cheap so it's a nice place to start as I have extra Batts he can borrow till he can finish his. I am trying to convince him to paint Italians or some other satellite. But due to his limited knowledge of the period he thinks they were all poor troops.

Cheers

Stanley

You can tell him that the northern Italian troops, Kingdom of Italy, were probably the most reliable Allies of the Emperor, or tied with those of the Duchy of Warsaw.

The did heroic service at Malojaroslavetz (spelling?) on the way out of Russia; and the troops in Spain were good units. They served in eastern Spain, but a division eventually worked its way up to the Vitoria area, and COULD have been present for that battle while on line-of-communications duty.

GdeP

I agree, the Italians were great at Maloyaroslavets.

And one French line regiment that wore white with regimental facing colors on the lapels,cuffs and collar in 1806-07 during the campaign vs. Prussia,just before the "Winter War",was bloodied quite bad which may have have shaken up the French high command enough to revert back to blue,so the blood wouldn't show as much.

Well there is always the other two fall backs:

Westphalians – not quite French line, but still pretty good if he doesn't want to do KoI.

Get them in campaign gear, they have even less detail.

Or paint them up with two command stands, one as Westphalian and wone as Italian. Yes I know there are variations in uniform but I'm considering this for my 10mm figures were it will not matter.

The white uniform experiment began in February 1805 with the 3d Battalions of the 4th Legere and 18th Ligne being issued the new white uniforms. It was considered a successful experiment and in April 1806 nineteen ligne regiments were told to uniform in white for testing during the next year.

If the test was successful (which it turned out not to be) all ligne regiments were to be in white by 1809.

The following line regiments were designated to be issued the new white uniforms: 3d, 4th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 22d, 24th, 25th, 27th, 28th,32d, 33d, 34th, and 36th.

The 3d, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 21st, 32d, 33d, and 46th did wear the new uniform. However, sometimes only one battalion or even one company actually wore it in these regiments and that isn't yet known which ones.

Sometimes the 53d Ligne is listed, but that is probably because its colonel had his portrait painted in a uniform that the regiment might be wearing in the future.

The 13th, 15th, 46th, and 53d were not designated to wear the new uniform.

The 66th Ligne in Guadalupe did wear the white uniform.

Now to Spain. Of the regiments designated and/or wore the white uniform, the following went to Spain:

3d, 14th, 15th, 16th, 32d. The 15th definitely wore white in Spain. The others probably did also as after white was abolished the units that already had them wore them until they wore out, or were supposed to. Some regiments actually wore white in 1806 against the Prussians. In 1811 the 124th Ligne was still in white until Napoleon saw them and then they were ordered back into dark blue.

Interestingly, faced with a shortage of new uniforms in 1814, some of the old white ones were issued.

B

In 1811 the 124th Ligne was still in white until Napoleon saw them and then they were ordered back into dark blue.

Wouldn't the 124th have been in white because they had previously been part of the Dutch army, which wore white? Rather than having been issued the experimental white uniform?

Saxons wore white too. (Mind you, don't believe they were in the Peninsula)

The composite Garde de Paris battalion probably wore red and green uniforms at Bailen, but was wearing white uniforms (with green and red facings) at Oporto (1809) Aguilar de Campo (1811) and Burgos (1812).

Rod

I can't wait for Perry to release their plastic Prussian Reserve Infantry. Plan to do a conversion to make some into a French "waistcoat" Peninsula battalion.

The White Uniforms of the French Army, 1806-1807 Described by Guy C. Dempsey Jr., illustrated by R. J. Marrion

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers

@George K.
I wish AB would do some French in waistcoats for the Peninsula War.

When the 14th Legere were transferred to Corfu, they modified their waistcoats for use as a much cooler outer garment. Epaulets were attached as well as other modifications for a very smart looking uniform.

B

Napoleon sickened by blood?! No Way. It may sound good, but Napoleon would have never admitted it if even remotely factual. Blue just looks better.

From Swords Around A Throne, page 444:

'Active service in the bogs of Poland, however, was not kind to the smart whte dress. Veterans jeered that it was en pierrot, a clown's costume. It had the added disadvantage that the least wound to a soldier wearing it looked fatal because of the contrast of bloodstains against even a dirty white coat. By 1807 Napoleon decided to keep the blue coats.'

I don't think that Napoleon was sickened by the sight of blood. Where did that come from?

B

'Wouldn't the 124th have been in white because they had previously been part of the Dutch army, which wore white? Rather than having been issued the experimental white uniform?'

Yes, they were Dutch and were probably supposed to have already changed into dark blue by 1811 but were tardy.

B

The rumor was that Napoleon was sickened by the casualties at Eylau, supposedly in white uniforms. But I would expect everyone there was wearing a greatcoat over their uniforms, so . . .