"JR3 at Historicon" Topic

Looks like a good showing of Johnny Reb at Historicon 2013.
Here are the JR3 games that I know of.

Culp's Hill
Thursday 10:00 am – 2:00 pm
6 players
GM: Grant Daniels

Pardee Field
Thursday 3:00 -- 7:00 pm
8 players
GM: Curt Daniels

TBA Friday 10:00am
GM: Larry Morris:

Retreat through Gettysburg
Friday 6:00 – 10:00 pm
6 players
GM: Scott Mingus

Longstreet's Assault
Saturday 11:00 am – 5:00 pm
16 players
GM: Curt, Scott and Grant

Obviously the title should read "JR3 at Historicon"

Any sense of the skill level or familiarity with the rules in those games? I'd love a good game against fellow veteran players, but tend to become very frustrated if many of thos playing have no idea how to use their troops.

My experience for the last several years has been that there is a cadre of experienced JR players that sign up for these games. I can't remember the last time I had a novice in a game.

Isn't that the chance you take, playing games at conventions? You get somebody who liked the game description but never once thought about what it takes to play the game?

When I GM, I temper my expectations and roll the game for Joe off the street.

John – I think that's true in many cases. Johnny Reb though seems to appeal to the older more experienced player. It's seen as too complicated by many and they stay away from it.

I CAN remember playing with novices and it pretty much ruined some otherwise very fine games. (And that is true whether they are on my side or the other.) Because yes, JR is complex, and many of the most effective tactics are non-obvious to beginners.

FM is a magical order that lets you do all sorts of freaky things, as only one stand must remain in place, and all may face in any direction. It requires a roll against BMP, but playing an FM on a skirmishing unit can produce amazing maneuvers.

You win JR by the other side rolling snake eyes on morale tests. The way to do that is to force lots of morale tests. An artillery unit is often better employed ignoring the nearer and/or stronger facing target and hitting a flank of a smaller unit further away -- and that enemy unit may be facing your colleague's forces and not your own. Meanwhile, HE'S looking for flank shots against enemy facing YOU.

etc.

i've been playing johnny reb since the game came out.
magical order regaurding FM? winning by "forcing morale checks"? not really.
sure the game ismore complex than, say, fire and fury, but in that game, units tend to carry on until destroyed.
yeah, thats historicly correct…

An artillery unit is often better employed ignoring the nearer and/or stronger facing target and hitting a flank of a smaller unit further away --

Sounds like a tournament player's attitude. Is that what the JR3 crowd is like? Play the rules, not the period?

Not the crowd I play with. Also we use a document developed by the Johnny Reb Yahoo Group, which clarifies many of the ambiguities of the rules, including firing at most threatening targets in your primary zone.

Hmmm. I attended JonnyCon last July in Indy, John Hill (the designer) was there playing in a large game. It looked to me more like he was playing his group like an ACW Bde and not trying magic moves. Perhaps he has it all wrong.

Sorry for being a bit snarky.

BTW, I recommend JohnnyCon to any JR3 players it is held everyother year and the organizer is a TMPer. CWBuff who is a gentlemen.

People setting up the game in the PEL should say Experence players only.

Say you are facing a single defending regiment in a strong position, but with open flanks. Move a good regiment in skirmish up within, say, 3", outside of close range. You'll take fire from the defender but with reduced casualties because skirmishing. Make sure your end stands extend beyond his end stands, which isn't hard since your skirmishers cover a wider front than his do. Next turn play FM. Provided you make your BMP for tactical proficiency, which elites mostly do and veterans accompanied by a leader generally will as well, you can change from skirmish into line. And you can do that off of your choice of stand. You can probably pick which flank, and end the turn in a line within close range of your choice of his flank.

It's not without risks, obviously. But it IS within the rules, or at least used to be (I haven't played in several years) and has a good probability of being effective. The OUTCOME may even be realistic -- an attacker might maneuver onto a defender's open flank, certainly -- but the way it is accomplished is, I'd say, magical.

in jr3, skirmishers CAN'T move closer than 5".

"

Well, that's a good rule.

Actually skirmishes can't move within 2 inches. (Page 7)

I really enjoy conventions because they are a great opportunity to try new rule sets and historical periods. I have run 10's of games over the last decade at all three HMGS-East cons and at Little Wars and have always welcomed first-time players to all my games.

WARSTEPHEN has it correct in suggesting that if a certain level of knowledge of or expertise in a system is desired, it should be noted in the event description. The "experts" who register for a game open to new players should expect and accept novice play from novice players.

If an "expert" really wants an expert-level game, maybe he or she should take the initiative to register as a GM and run a designated expert game.

I'm being almost completely serious here… but if you are looking for realism, shouldn't you be happy about having some neophytes at the table when you are gaming ACW? Not all Civil War commanders were Stonewall Jackson or Winfield Hancock.

Billy Yank

The first time that I played JR3 it was in a sizeable game at a club meeting. The OOB was the entire OOB for both AOP and ANV at the Battle of Fredricksburg, so pretty big. Each Player was given a division to command, most had been playing for years (I was given a few copied pages to get smart on before the game).

So I was a novice by anyones estimation, however I had a pretty good idea of ACW tactics and a solid understanding of the principles of war. By the end of the game my division was advanced as far and fast as any other AOP unit and was the last division still standing when the rest were in full flight.

So I would agree that if the GM wants only experienced players then state so, otherwise realize some novices will do better and some worse but that is how you gain experienced players.

Hope those asking for experienced players only aren't the same folks crying about the drop in interest in historical games from younger players, or the dwindling numbers of people interested in Civil War or historical games.

I totally understand not wanting to play with idiots or people that have no clue what they are doing, but those things can be mitigated by effective leadership from the person running the game. If someone is being a jerk in your game, take control and ask them to leave. If someone has no clue how to play at all and it's clearly dragging down the game for others (someone can not know the rules yet be entirely able to follow along or lead troops effectively while they learn), tell them they are under water and ask if they really want to continue. If they do have someone or yourself guide them along. If you aren't prepared to step up, either don't run games at a convention or list experienced players only but don't complain about a lack of interest in this area of the hobby if you do.

As for some of the so called tactics mentioned above, I would rather play with players who are willing to learn but new to the game than so called experienced players who play like that. I hate gamers that play to the letter of the law exploiting every aspect of the rules to win. If that is how you play, go play Warhammer 40k instead.

It would make sense to me that playing against players that "don't know how to handle their troops" would be entirely historical as that happened all the time in the Civil War while none of the lawyer tactics mentioned above were. Frankly I'd be more inclined to ask someone to leave my game if they did that then if they didn't understand the rules fully.

Like Bezmozgu7 I go to conventions to play rules and/or periods I don't do with my usual gang. Likewise, as a GM I encourage players who want to do something a bit different. Teaching someone the rules may slow things down a bit, but the payoff is that someone has learned a set of rules that you (the GM) enjoy.

I'm guessing I'll see a few of you at Historicon.

Billy Yank has the right idea.

Although that does lead to that bit of self reflection: Does on warn the newbie that he has exposed the flank of his entire brigade to your artillery and infantry OR do you hammer the fool eschew the teaching moment and hammer the sucker! Decisions, decisions.

as the Larry Morris referenced above
we run a game every historicon, and some of the other conventions, I usually make a note in the PEL that inexperienced players are welcome.
I have gotten a lot of players who haven't played in a while
I think I have actually taught the rules once for sure. Possibly twice.

Anyone running any JRII games?