"M5 Stuart and M8 Gun catrriage in Indochina" Topic

Can anyone give a date as to when the French started replacing the M5 and M8 with the M24 Chaffee?

Would ther be occassions when units were using both alongside each other?, or were the French supplied with enough to replace completely?

Really like the M5 and M8 and wondering if I can possibly get away with using them in later games

Cheers

Regardless those vehicles soldiered on in ARVN units and in LOAS and Cambodia as well….I would not throw a fit if you used them for indochima or early to mid war Nam and late war ruff/puff units…..Mikey

The book "Vietnam Tracks" doesn't give an exact date, but has pictures of M8s and M5s in 1951. I didn't notice any of these vehicles in pictures after that year for whatever that's worth. It does say this:

'With the outbreak of the Korean War the American attitude towards France's involvement in Indo-China altered. It was no longer perceived as a colonialist war but as a containment of Communist expansion. American military aid increased dramatically. The aging M5A1 Stuart light tanks were superseded by M24 Chafees.'

The M5's & M8's soldiered along in company with the Chaffee, which was introduced in late 1950 IIRC. I use all of them alongside each other. link
link

They were definitely being used by Legion cavalry units up until the end.

Many thanks Etranger for those great links, just what i need to set out the French company and a squadron of M5's, great stuff

Added bonus, did'nt realise the universal carrier was used in Indochina, all time classic in my opinion, love them. It just gets better

Is it time to dig up the rumour of ISU 152s (or similar??) lurking in the undergrowth at Dien Bien Phu!!
This conflict has some great vehicles and M5/M8s are some of my favourites.

No but it would be really interesting if the Viet Minh were able to field some T34/85's ot at least some ex ww2 Japanese vintage armour!…..:-)

The French used some Japanese armour at the start of the conflict….

Etranger, I don't as yet have a lot of books on this subject, would it be possible to angle as a what if that the viet Minh in the initial stages of the war would have been able to take the tanks into their own arsenal and use them as a somewhat vintage tank force.

Do you happen to know what types were available, later models or predominently tankettes?

Many thanks

Same link as before link

So potentially a bit more than just tankettes, although probably not very many, nor for very long, given the lack of spare parts, fuel etc that were likely to crop up fairly promptly. The Japanese probably held on to them until the French turned up to take over.

Which reminds me, you can use Japanese troops 'under command' of British units for the early battles around Saigon in 1945-46.

It's a big if I know, but I wonder what the consequences would have been if Chinese/ Soviet assistance had stretched to T-34/85's, certainly a shock for the French.

Would I be right in assuming if this had been the case, we would have seen a far greater contribution from the allies with possibly troops on the ground and in effect a similar scenario to Korea?

It wouldn't have happened until 1949 or so anyway, when the Chicom troops reached the Northern border region of Vietnam, which prior to that was nominally Nationalist Chinese territory. By then the Korean war was more or less underway in any case. That's also the period when the VM began to get significant traction.

The Northern border of Vietnam doesn't look to be particularly good tank country anyway, at least judging by the lack of armour used in the Sino-Vietnamese war in 1979.

The US was fairly indifferent to the French situation in Vietnam, due to the until their initial anti-colonial stance. Once the 'Communist threat' became more apparent then the US supply lines opened. As to ground involvement, that would probably have been difficult to justify at the time & the French response can only be imagined!

M-36 tank destroyers were sent to Indo-China due to the fact that the Chicoms had JSIIs and there was a decided possibility that the Chinese intercede.

I've finally been able to check my TO&Es: the M8 GMC was phased out of light tank platoons when they reequipped with M24s from 1951 since these already had 75s. However, they soldiered on in armoured car platoons where they had one per platoon.

So, you could have mixed M5/M8 GMC light tank platoons alongside M24 platoons in 1951 or mixed M8 Greyhound/M8 GMC armoured car platoons alongside M24 platoons all the way to the end.

The ARVN used the French armoured car TO&E until reorganized by US advisors and Laotian and Cambodian units appear to have used M8s until the late 60s at least.