"a diplomacy campaign 1812" Topic

I`ve just started a diplomacy (not the board game) campaign for the start of 1812.
Napoleon has had a premonition of a catastrophic defeat in the snows of Russia, and so from a position of some strength (late in 1811), France is offering a generous peace treaty with GB, Portugal & Spain and other favourable deals to the rest of Europe !
e.g.: Prussia is being offered the territories lost from 1806.
So the Napoleon in this game wants peace!
I think Napoleon himself would never have entertained a notion of compromise and giving up on territories gained by conquest, but would anyone like to comment on what the rest of Europe`s reaction might be to this?

What are the terms of the Peace treaty?

F

Short of withdrawing to Frances 1796 borders I doubt he'd end the war, just delay it's conclusion.

Much of the rest of Europe wouldn't agreed, as they wanted Royal Bloodline back on the throne.

Michael
Here are my two cents: GB never really stops opposing France so they will stay the course of the fight (no compromise), Spain is where Napoleon put his brother Joseph on the throne so He can't really back down there, if Joseph stays on the throne of Spain then GB will continue to use Portugal as a base and Napoleon can't afford to leave a flank that long remain exposed. So the peninsula stays a festering ulcer.

Prussia might indeed take the bait on a temporay basis, however the Prussian pride had been crushed and they were not likely to forgive in the long run. There is only one way to get back at Napoleon, in their minds, and that is to defeat him on the field of battle.

ferg, the terms are in two parts….

Part One: Proposals for Peace Negotiations with the states of Britain, Spain & Portugal.

1. The peaceful removal of all foreign troops from Spain and Portugal.

2. France recognizes Portugal's right to determine its government and the return of the Braganza family

3. France recognizes Spain's right to determine its government and the return of the Bourbon family.

4. France recognizes the existing borders between Spain and Portugal and between Spain and France and the instigation of a permanent peace on these borders.

5. The return of the house of Hanover to its original borders and the instigation of a permanent peace on these borders.

6. In return for the abovementioned proposals, Britain, Spain and Portugal to recognise the existing borders of Metropolitan France, and the states of Warsaw, Italy and Naples.

[…and the second part is addressed to the other major powers of Europe…]

Part Two: Proposals for a Peace Treaty with Austria, Prussia & Russia.

The Aim of the Treaty is to strengthen the current peaceful relations between France, Austria, Prussia & Russia, thereby securing a permanent peace in Europe.

1. France will promote the friendly trade between all nations of Europe, to which end Britain would end its naval blockades and the Continental System will be dismantled by France.

2. Prussia will regain all its possessions taken prior to 1806, in return for the recognition of the integrity of Metropolitan France, and the states of Warsaw, Italy and Naples.

3. Russia will regain all its possessions taken prior to 1812, in return for the recognition of the integrity of Metropolitan France, and the states of Warsaw, Italy and Naples.

4. France will ensure that the territory of the Grand Duchy of Warsaw will not be expanded nor will it become a kingdom.

5. In return for the recognition of these kingdoms, Austria will regain all lands taken and then ceded to Bavaria, Saxony and Württemberg.

6. Austria will regain; the Dalmatian Coast, the Venetian and Illyrian provinces, in return for its recognition of the integrity of Metropolitan France, and the states of Warsaw, Italy and Naples.

7. The integrity of all French allied states will be guaranteed by all signatories. These allied states being: Bavaria, Saxony, Württemberg, Italy, Naples, Sicily, Warsaw and all other states in Europe.

I think that the chances are that the main players will be France, GB and Russia in this game.
Prussia and Austria are just not strong enough to resist Napoleon at this time; both weakened by previous Wars, reduced in territory and military power, they are likely to accept these terms – maybe accept them for just the time being perhaps?
G.B. will fight on alone however, and what happens next really depends on how active the Russian player will be – will he use the weaknesses of the other European states to his advantage, or even provoke Napoleon to invade Russia?

Extremely generous concessions from Napoleon!
The other European powers would be absolute fools not to bite his hand off to accept IMHO, as Napoleon is in an extremely powerful position on the continent in 1811.

But I guess it won't make a great game if the players just accept the terms and achieve peace. Historically I don't think the British would have accepted even this generous offer, so it's very plausible to have a game based on a dispute of the terms. The British were the main barriers to peace during the Napoleonic period IMO.

Great idea for a game BTW Michael!

P.S. i feel sorry for the Poles in your scenario. Let me know if you need a Polish player to provide some minor input to the proceedings, as I have an affinity for Poland during that era!

I think the Allies would negotiate for Netherlands and Belgium, otherwise they'd be ok with it. Especially if you compensated them for the loss of Poland with some small German territories.

Telestic,

That would be interesting… I`d be happy to include you as a Polish player, but not a puppet of Saxony!
You`d be in the middle of it and things could get very interesting for you ;-)

could you contact me via:

contact@grandmanoeuvre.co.uk

thanks!

Mike.

Wow… so Napoleon admits total defeat and voluntarily goes bankrupt!

I know it's fictional and for fun, but: without having been defeated militarily, why would he give back all of those conquests, and then how would he pay for the French army – much less the navy – without all the income from the continued plunder and the confiscation of land in all of those areas?

What happens to the various Napoleonic creations like Westphalia or Berg? If Prussia gets all its land back, then I guess Westphalia ceases to exist? (The formerly-Prussian Elbian provinces are the wealthiest part of Westphalia, and also the source of the largest French tribute payments.) I assume that the north German provinces go back to being Hannoverian, and/or independent? (There goes another chunk of Westphalia.) Ditto for the Kingdom of Italy, if Austria gets those territories back. Jerome and Eugene are unemployed.

What happens to the property of all those French officers and officials, who have been given fiefs to rule from Spain to Poland? Napoleon depends upon that revenue, too. Nearly half of the private estates of Germany would change hands, meaning a massive blow to French tax receipts.

And of course allowing British imports back on the Continent would mean a huge blow to French commerce, as the cheaper British goods crowd them out of the market. Wasn't the point of the Continental System Napoleon's attempt to replace British imports with French ones, thus stimulating the French economy at Britain's expense? If he reversed that policy – particularly at the same time he's scaling-back his army and thus sending unemployed men back to the private sector – France would have skyrocketing unemployment, which would in turn depress wages.

There wouldn't have to be any war. I doubt Napoleon would last another year on the throne. He'd have voluntarily crushed the French economy, bankrupted the state, betrayed his vassals like Bavaria, Württemberg, and Saxony, un-invented or hobbled his satellites like Westphalia and Italy, rewarded sworn enemies like Prussia, Hannover, and Portugal, and taken-back all the rewards he'd given to thousands of his military and civilian officials. If he wasn't assassinated, he'd be overthrown.

*

Why not just do an 1812 scenario in which he decides not to invade Russia. Just pick up the thread from there, and see what happens next?

Yes, I know, but the "campaign" has resulted from an idea the Napoleon player had when he was trying to consider the best time for Napoleon to call a halt to his territorial ambitions and consolidate his empire.

The initiative is with Napoleon and so the time and starting point of peace negotiations are of his choice.

You make the point about the Continental system well and I think that I have to ask Napoleon about the French economy, the discontents and the problems that it will face in the immediate future after a peace settlement is reached.
Still, the trade issue is a part of Napoleon`s proposals which depends upon British compliance and if Britain does not agree, the blockades and continental system will continue and continue to cause problems for Napoleon. For the rest, we`ll just have to wait and see how Austria, Prussia and Russia react.
The peace settlement may be limited, with only Prussia and Austria accepting the terms and it may only last a short while, until the next round of conflict.
The next round of conflict is inevitable really because I would think that GB and Russia will not agree to all this anyhow.

Essential points there about the economics, not to forget the ability of London to offer subsidies

Yep that`s a biggy – I`ve covered that one Mike!

Maybe put a timer on the campaign, so that Napoleon has to win a new war somehow, before he gets overthrown, or before economic collapse means a second French Revolution?

His only base of support is the military, and he'd have to massively downsize it, in order to afford it without all of the extractions from the occupied or vassal states. Half of the officers join the half million new unemployed veterans on the streets, plus the 1-2 million new unemployed workers resulting from French exports being submerged beneath a flood of British trade returning to the Continent (i.e., what historically happened to Bourbon France, post-1814.)

And the other half of the officer corps that was lucky enough to stay in uniform, is seething that the Boss just took away their livelihoods – the fiefs he rewarded them with all over Europe – after they fought so long and hard for him, to win the lands he just gave away, in return for such a disastrous peace.

"The peace settlement may be limited, with only Prussia and Austria accepting the terms"

In 1812 he was already at peace with Austria and Prussia. Indeed, he was allied to both. And to Russia.

The only states he has to make peace with in 1812, are Britain and Spain.

Well

Very very generous terms and you would ne naive not to give them serious consideration

If I was in a position to make the decision, and had no alterior motives, then I would accept

F

"Maybe put a timer on the campaign, …"

I was thinking of setting a time limit and "victory" condition points – to achieve a new peaceful agreement with "x" number of certain states. But then this game is about diplomacy in the widest sense and a peace maybe prove useful for Napoleon to achieve further military successes – but then I`m not sure if this is what the Napoleon player`s "fall-back" position is… he hasn`t told me everything yet.

I believe France would be ripe for a civil war/revolution. This scenario with Napoleon as a "dove of peace" seems so out of character. I believe that Austria/Prussia/GB bide their time, invade France, sniff out Bonaparte and put him on trial (if not already dead), and then hang him. At least Napoleon would get to re-employ the officers and enlisted men that were temporarily out of work.

Would anyone here would like to play Bernadotte (who needs to consolidate his position) and may be able to take advantage of Napoleon`s weakness in the campaign?

Mike.

It`s OK, we now have a Swedish player…

Here`s another chance to join in as Sultan Mustafa IV of the Ottoman Empire. Some recent developments in the campaign mean that there could be some interest and fun had with it…

Sounds like a lot of fun.

Your premise is similar to Avalon Hill's game "Empires in Arms", which still has a very active pbem community. I'm in three pbem games right now, some games lasting for three years so far. EiA enables completely flexible diplomacy; one recent game saw a British/Prussian/Austrian alliance against France/Russia/Turkey.

In the game players can communicate or even change policies if they wish, but it is historically based and players have objectives which i have weighted in points terms for victory conditions.

I`m hoping once diplomacy takes it`s course, the game will be resolved in only a few months` time – a Coalition has already formed and it is now a question of how other states will be affected or if they can make anything from the new situation – e.g. The Ottoman Empire?

An Ottoman player has been found!

The campaign is nearly over now – there will be a Congress of Warsaw in the coming weeks… I`ll let everyone here know what happened.

The Campaign Result:
After a most severe military defeat of three of Napoleon's army corps at Riga and a successful invasion of southern France by Wellington and also due to the most acute internal dissatisfaction with Napoleon's regard for the economic plight of the Empire and it`s people, the campaign ended with a coup d`Etat in Paris.

Whilst withdrawing from Spain, Napoleon, invading Russia, tried to take and hold most of the Ukraine, Courland and Lithuania, consequently his forces were divided and then prone to counter-attacks by the Russians, who had increased their Cossack numbers and been most active in scouting an intelligence gathering.
The most decisive counter-strike took place at Riga, where once beaten back by superior numbers, Marshall Oudinot was forced to surrender his trapped army. The Russians claimed this to be their "Ulm".

The British invasion of Southern France took place two weeks after 70,000 men of the peninsula French armies had been transferred to Saxony.
Soult was unable to defend such a long frontier and was beaten at Orthez.
The British and allies pursued Soult towards Bordeaux and Bayonne fell to the Swedish Peninsula Division. Soult, acting for the good of France had recalled some of the men marching fro Saxony, but it was too late…

By this time the coup had gained much support in the French military, including many of the generals who had served and profited by their control of Spanish territories. Marshall Soult was one of these generals.
Contacted by the agents of opponents to Napoleon, Soult then called for an armistice and Wellington, who had received intelligence of the existence of the group of conspirators, agreed to a period of two weeks.
A new provisional French government was formed; there was little opposition in Paris and in the South (most notably at Bayonne) the allied armies were greeted by many as liberators.

Military Actions in 1812:
In four months` military campaigning there were eight major battles, one siege assault, three naval landings, two invasions in minor theatres of war and one successful rear-guard action by French cavalry against Cossacks in Lithuania.

Spain:
6th June 1812: San Cristobal (5 miles north-east of Salamanca)
Wellington (47,000) v. Marmont (40,000)
British/Allied Victory
British losses: 1,410
French losses: 4,800
Marmont retreated towards Valladolid.

7th-12th June 1812: The Danish invasion of Swedish Pomerania.
Prince Frederik of Hesse (2,500) v French Gendarmes & Customs Officials (27)
Danish Victory
No Losses.
Elements of the 2nd battalion Oldenburg Infantry Regiment and the 3rd Schleswig Infantry Regiment assisted by marines and sailors of the Kongelige Danske took control of Sweden's lightly defended province.

23rd June 1812: Corfu
Grand Vizier Laz Ahmed Pasha (13,000) v Colonel Meijer (9,600)
Turkish Victory
Ottoman losses: 450
French losses: 1,500.
On the 16th June12,000 Turkish troops landed on the western side of the southern Corfu and steadily advanced north for five days. The Ottomans found only minimal resistance to their landing and their advances inland. At the battle of Corfu the French army was forced to retreat after its "Albanian" troops under the command of Colonel Minot (these units were actually raised on the island of Corfu itself) threw down their weapons and ran away as the Turkish Janissaries marched towards them.
The five battalions of the Regiment d'Etranger fought reasonably well, but their positions was compromised by the rout of the "Albanian" troops and were forced to retire as were the 3,900 men of the French 6th and 14th Regiments de Ligne.
On the next day, the Ottomans bombarded Corfu town itself with their heavy mortars for just 5 minutes; by 11 in the morning on the 24th the French garrison had surrendered.

Russia:
12th July 1812. Napoleon invades Russia.
French/Allied forces (610,000) Russian forces (603,600)

Russia:
24th July 1812: Schavli (80 miles south-west of Riga).
Constantine (75,000) v. Oudinot (60,000).
Russian Victory.
Russian losses: 2,316
Prussian/French losses: 6,837.
The French/Prussians were routed, but were saved by the appearance of the Bavarian VI Corps the next morning.
Constantine withdrew to Riga.

Southern France:
16th August 1812: Bidart (10 miles south-west of Bayonne).
Wellington (52,808) v. Thomieres (17,875)
British/Allied Victory
British losses: 1,207
French losses: 4,457
Thomieres` Corps was routed to Bayonne.

Southern France:
16th August 1812: Biarritz (5 miles south-west of Bayonne).
Wellington (51,548) v. Ferrey (18,281)
British/Allied Victory
British losses: 1,216
French losses: 2,565
Ferrey`s Corps was routed to Bayonne.

Southern France:
16th August 1812: St. Jean Pied de Port (30 miles south-east of Bayonne)
Demidoff. (30,250) v.DeCaen (17,826)
Allied Victory
French losses: 5,017
Russian Losses: 1,287
Swedish Losses: 136
Decaen Corps was routed towards Osses.

Russia: "The Manoeuvre of Riga".
26th August 1812: Jekabpils (85 miles south-east of Riga).
Barclay de Tolly/Constantine & Wittgenstein (46,693) v. St. Cyr ( 21,796)
Russian Victory.
Russian losses: 3,119
Bavarian losses: 8,937
The Bavarians were pursued, and forced surrender on the morning of the 27th August.
Russians had taken about 12,000 prisoners.

Russia: "The Manoeuvre of Riga".
28th August 1812: Kegums (65 miles south-east of Riga).
Barclay de Tolly/Constantine, Baggavout & Platov (68,153 ) v Oudinot (54,147)
Russian Victory.
Russian losses: 3,910
Prussian/French losses: 14,388
French and Prussians are routed and pursued.
As darkness fell, French and Prussia Light Cavalry cover the retreat against Russian Cossacks: the beaten Cossack "bounce".
Attempts to rally the French/Prussian troops the next morning failed and panic spread causing an uncontrolled rout.

Russia: "The Manoeuvre of Riga".
29th August 1812: Russian Pursuit of routing French/Prussians.
Cossacks (11,300) v Oudinot (33,000)
Russian Victory.
Prussian/French losses: 2,275
Russian losses (Cossacks): 310

Southern France:
29th August 1812: Orthez (40 miles west of Bayonne).

Wellington (52,808) v. Soult (46,023)
British/Allied Victory.
French losses: 4,054
British losses: 1,335.
Soult`s army was routed but escaped northward. Soult then withdrew towards Bordeaux. Wellington followed.

Russia: "The Manoeuvre of Riga".
30th August 1812: Riga and the French/Prussian capitulation.
Russian Victory.
The French and Prussian armies were unable to rally at their bases around Riga – Oudinot was obliged to surrender to De Tolly on the 31st August 1812.

Russia: "The Manoeuvre of Riga".
2nd September 1812: Jelgava (40 miles south-west of Riga)
Corbineau (2,200) Platov (5,500)
French Victory:
French losses: 34
Russian losses (Cossacks): 310
The 5th and 6th Light Cavalry Brigades fought a successful rear guard action against pursuing Cossacks – The French cavalry of II Corps had broken out of Riga on the night of the 30th August.

Southern France:
8th September 1812: Assault on the city and garrison of Bayonne.
1st Swedish Peninsula Division. (11,060) v. Bayonne Garrison (5,000)
Allied Victory.
Swedish losses: 127
French losses: Not known: possibly very light.
Bayonne Captured.
The city was secured by the previously unengaged infantry of the 1st Swedish Peninsula Division.
The division suffered only 127 casualties in the river crossing and the following assault on the northern defences of the city.
Once the walls were attacked, the morale of the defenders crumbled (these troops had already been beaten in Spain and then at Bidart and Biarritz).
The conduct of the Swedish troops was exemplary; many of the citizens of Bayonne appeared waving white flags and wearing white royalist cockades to cheer the Swedes through the streets!


Illyria:
10th September 1812: Naval landings & the port of Pula captured.
Turkish Victory
No Losses.
The Ottomans landed 15,000 of their best troops and captured the port of Pula in Illyria.
Some two weeks prior to the landings at Pula, this was supported by joint Serbian-Bosnian forces that made a demonstrative invasion of Illyria in three columns of 5,400 men each.

14th September 1812: Coup d`Etat in Paris.
With forged papers, generals; Malet, Lahorie and Guidal seized power by assuming the command of the National Guard of Paris. Savary, the Minister of Police was arrested and shot. Napoleon's Minster of War, Clarke was also arrested. The generals had claimed that Napoleon had died in Russia from food poisoning. Malet declared that they were acting with the authority of Lazare Carnot, Jean Moreau, Vice-Admiral Laurent Jean Francoise Truguet, Marshals; Jourdan, Davout, Augereau, Grouchy, Suchet, Marmont & Soult, and he declared a new Provisional government for France under President Lazare Carnot and Prime Minister, Jean Moreau.
There was much influential support for this coup in France`s finance and business circles. Some time later, it surprised many to learn that Napoleon's own finance minister, Martin-Michel-Charles Gaudin had also supported the take-over. On the 1st of October 1812, Gaudin, the 1st Duc de Gaete was elected Governor of the Banque de France by the new French Cabinet.
Later that month, the New French Government decided that Napoleon Buonaparte should be exiled to some place of the choosing of the delegates at the Congress of Warsaw. Prime Minister, Jean Victor Marie Moreau tentatively suggested to British diplomats that the Buonapartes are sent to the Pacific Islands of the New Hebrides where both British and French colonists have settled peacefully together.