"WSS cavalry - how many belts" Topic

It seems that there wer two patterns of wearing the belts among WSS cavalry.

1. One wide belt to support the carabine and one narrow belt for cartridge box. The belts could be crossed or worn one under another. One can also call it "modern" version.
It's shown here:

2. Two wide crossbelts, ono for carabine, second for sword.
This pattern was preffered by English cavalry.

It was also "ancient" style, more common in NYW.

I would like to find out which countries used which pattern, and generally how popular was "old (crossbelts) pattern" in WSS. Could I use it for small German countries ?

What dou you think ?

well as in all things it depends..more than two As a broad rule of thumb..dragoons wore one belt , well two, over the left shoulder. One carried their cartridge box,the other was for their musket with is swivel clip, for unner of the mounteneering "karabin"..being social inferiors they wore their sword, and bayonet, from their waistbelt..
Horse were the true men of class and had a sword belt over the right shoulder and usually a thinner strap over their left shoulder with their noticably smaller cartridge box. Some maybe were issued with muskets, or carbines would added a belt over the left for this.. much horse were never issued , or never carried a long arm..it was a sort of "not horse" thing to carry ..they relied upon sword and pistols.. so it goes but then some people did it differently but as the social distinctions between dragoons and horse was still pretty deep the horse were often jealous in preserving their traditions. It helps to get into the minds of these people..I remember foundry could never get it right and onf figure had a sort of vaguely non attached to anything sword scabbard.. you often can't really trust manufacturers…
The top are probably French and that trooper sword is a case of being not attached to anything!!!The trooper on the second pic is a trooper of Horse while tye officer has lapels???? which would make him what?? I don't know

Yes

Never mind the belts.. lovely paint jobs.

^^^ Indeed.

Figures are Front Rank and painted by them.
I posted the pics because they show what I mean.
There are other pictures showing cavalarymen with only one shoulder belt, with scabbard being attached to waistbelt.

I think FR makes "English' horse with the sword belt over the shoulder and French with the sword belt around the waist. I believe this is correct for the French by the WSS and is correct for the English horse. Card is correct about the English, or British, if you will, dragoons.

Right. WSS French had their cartridge boxes, swords and bayonets on the waistbelts. Spanish and Catalan ones did so too. It is well documented, at least in the Catalan case. Only crossbelt was for the firearm.
The "lapels" of the British cavalryman are not really lapels but a second lace stripe parallel to the outer seam one. Buttonhole lacing connected both. He's got such lacing because of him being an officer while the trooper in the same picture has the carabin and not the lacing.
See, some links:
Catalans

Spanish



French

Sorry for the big images, don't know how to resize…

those osprey pics are a worry in parts, where are the cartridge boxes? I can accept French troopers with a waist swordbelt..as I said it was done differntly..One of the British dragoon regiments in Spain sported a crossbelt sporting their sword. Thwy had captured them from a sapnaish regiment of horse and promptly "ugraded" themselves.. Dogged are you suggesting the mounted troops had their cartridge boxes on their waist belts..an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous practice?

@Dogged
All pictures you've provided are for infantry. We are talking about cavalry.

@Cardinal H.
Your information about dragoons on Peninsula is very interesting. It could indicate that there wasn't uniformity in this matter and that I have free hand in recreating cavalry, especially of minor states.

In regard to the French sword belts there are some interesting engravings by Guerard c.1695

Cavalry on Piquet. They appear to have waist belts for swords, but worn on the inside of the coat, with the hilt poking through a vent in the coat. Perhaps this is a sort of informal dress given the circumstances, but it tends to show the waist belt was used rather than a cross belt.

Mousquettier and Garde du Corps. Special cases perhaps, but again waist belts.

Cavalry and Dragoons. Not totally clear, but looks like waist belts to me. They appear in the Osprey and may be in part what the plate above was based on. The powder flask and bullet bag; are these sufficient to arm the musket? Or should a cartridge box be necessary too?

As the Cardinal says its tricky to work out for illustrations how equipment was arranged. Often the issue seems to be fudged. If the musket is carried on a belt with a clip, where does the cartridge box go? On a second belt over the top of it? Attached to the musket belt? A smaller one on a waist belt? And if they don't wear a waist belt?

Clibinarium, could you answer my question on Pendraken's forum ?
link

Very interesting etchings, Clibinarium! Just to note that the first actually depicts cavalry in camp, with one trooper undergoing the "spike" (piquet) punishment, rather than cavalry on picket duty. The text gives interesting details about the layout of a cavalry encampment:

"A squadron occupies approximately 60 paces of ground when it is of 4 companies, which will share [this space] equally between them for laying out huts, stabling lines and [camp] streets. The standard is at the head of the first of these companies, together with the kettledrums if the regiment has any, guarded by a trooper sword in hand. Troopers who fail in their duties are posted to the standard, one unbooted foot on a spike, for their punishment. Standards of (squadrons forming] the right [wing] of the army always stand on the right [of their unit] all the way to the centre, and those of [squadrons forming] the left wing similarly stand on the left all the way to the centre. The streets between stabling lines are 15 or 20 paces wide to allow for moving horses, forage and manure. The horses' heads are towards the huts of their riders, which are 2 paces away and open on that side, except for the first and last ones. The former, which looks out onto the place d'armes, is that of the sergeant, the latter, for the corporals, has its door towards the officers' and sutlers' tents. The huts are 8 ft wide by 10 ft deep, and provide accommodation for 5 or 6 troopers."