| redcoat | 27 Mar 2013 4:10 a.m. PST |
Hi all,
The Osprey volume on Fuentes D'Onoro mentions a force made up of French grenadier companies attacking the village wearing bearskin caps. Is this correct? I though French line grenadiers were differentiated from centre coy men by the red plumes on their shakos, thus:
If some grenadiers did wear bearskin caps, which ones were they? Cheers all, Redcoat |
GildasFacit  | 27 Mar 2013 4:12 a.m. PST |
Not so much which regiments as the time period. Grenadiers wore bearskins only between certain dates (don't have my books to had so not sure when). |
| Artilleryman | 27 Mar 2013 4:23 a.m. PST |
There was a lot of variation between the regiments. Until the 1812 regulations (not always obeyed) quashed bearskins officially, it depended upon which regiment you were dealing with as to whether they wore the bearskin or not. A lot of research has been done on this, and as far as I am aware, there is no definitive list about who wore what. Therefore, reports of bearskins for line grenadiers (and light carabiniers) before 1812 are probably quite accurate in first hand accounts. Personally I would mix shakos and bearskins in any miniature pre-1812 army. Just make sure each regiment wears the same thing within its ranks. |
| WeeWars | 27 Mar 2013 4:23 a.m. PST |
The simple answer is, they wore them if they had them and wanted to wear them -- even if a little old and threadbare. Some were still being worn at the end of the Empire. |
| redcoat | 27 Mar 2013 4:26 a.m. PST |
If it helps, the battle of Fuentes D'Onoro was fought on 5 May 1811. In his Osprey volume Chartrand writes that Drouet sent to storm Fentes D'Onoro the eighteen grenadier coys of the eighteen batalions of his 9th Corps, and that they attacked '[w]earing their tall bearskin caps' (p. 85). |
| redcoat | 27 Mar 2013 4:27 a.m. PST |
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| Garde de Paris | 27 Mar 2013 6:24 a.m. PST |
PLEASE correct me if any of you has other information, for I am doing this from memory. I have been "building" 12 units from the Ist Corps in Spain for many years – having very little time for the hobby. My actual troops have been packed away for a year, but I am using the following: First Division:
9th Leger: bearskins for the carabiniers.
24th line: bearskins. (I have no source to confirm)
96th line: bearskins. Second Division:
16th Leger: Shakos. Long tailed coats, vests edged RED.
8th line: bearskins
45th line: shakos
54th line: shakos (only have sapeur data wearing colpak, and such unit's grenadiers "normally" wore the shako.) Third Division:
27th leger: bearskin. Bucqouy
63rd line: Rousselot illustrates a shako
94th line: bearskins. (Otto manuscript)
95th line: bearskins. (Otto manuscript) For other units: 2nd leger: bearskins. Rousselot
15th line, in white uniform – shakos.
33rd line in white uniform, faced violette – shakos. Bucquoy.
17th leger: shakos a one period; bearskins later. At least three different uniform periods. Rousselot shows one with bearskin. My first rank of 36 has 2 carabiniers after Rousselot; my secon rank had two with bearskins; and my third had two in long-tailed coats with bearskin. A messy unit!
27th line: Bearskin, later shako? Bucquoy.
65th line: Bearskin, no plate. brass grenade on front. Bucquoy
26th line: shakos. Sapeur with colpak, green in the plume!!!! Bucquoy
(Legion du Midi served with the 26th, bearskins for their carabiniers. Brown uniform faced mid-blue. The a Hanoverian Legion battalion was with these two, bearskins.)
42nd line: Bearskins. Sapeur looked every bit like one from the Old Guard Chasseurs! Bucquoy. Rigo illustrates the eagle and two sergeants in 1813, one with bearskin! Wearing the Bardin uniform. Slightly off topic, but Rousselot shows an elite Dragoon trumpeter of the 16th in 1813, bardin uniform of rose faces sky blue! White bearskin, red cording. I assume all the elite company wore the bearskin. I understand they no longer carried musketoons, having given them up to outfit infantrymen. I seem to remember a battalion from each of these Ist Corp regiments at Fuentes de Onoro, while the Corps was conducting the siege of Cadiz. I paint my units accurately when/because I can, but also enjoy "what if" when I have no data! GdeP |
| Garde de Paris | 27 Mar 2013 6:29 a.m. PST |
By the way, the illustration above could be of the 26th. White cuff flaps edged red was common to the (after Bucquoy), and shako with red bands. That voltigeur is also unique: yellow cuffs! Red epaulette shoulder board, green fringe and yellow crescent. Red ball pompom, then green/yellow plume. All are unique! They had the 4th, 5th and 6th battalions is Spain. the First 3 with the eagle were trapped in the West Indies! GdeP |
Frederick  | 27 Mar 2013 7:06 a.m. PST |
Agree that grenadiers could wear the bearskin up until 1812 – but I have to admit, the only bearskins in my French army are the Guard |
| marshalGreg | 27 Mar 2013 7:35 a.m. PST |
I think GdeP somes it up quite well of the mix.
Bearskins was a sign of elite and so desired.
The legere units thus had a heavier use. I recently came by some sources that at a period of time, prior to 1813 rebuild, that the line grenadiers were actually supplied with both shako and bearskin. So it is quite possible, depending conditions, the unit wore either and for some time possibly mixed based on personal preference and peer pressure. Bearskin-cooler weather and shako warmer. If you had worn one like I have from a friend's reenactor collection, it would be tough to wear during some parts of the hot season in Spain!!!
If I have confirmation of the shako was in use my unit then those that do not will most likely have the bearskin. All my legere units currently have the bearskin.
My main sources have been:
Sources in French ligne in osprey MaA
French Leger in osprey MaA
Rousselot
Hourtelle
knotel
Haythornwaite's /Chappell books MG |
 Der Alte Fritz | 27 Mar 2013 7:46 a.m. PST |
Presumably the grenadiers would store their bearskins in a cloth bag and wear a forage cap or chapeau until it was time to get ready for battle. Then they would don the bearskin for the battle. If you were marching through Spain in the hot dusty summer, you would probably rather wear a bicorne chapeau on the march as it would be more comfortable. |
| carojon | 27 Mar 2013 11:29 a.m. PST |
I have read a reference from a veterans journal that said they were attacked by Napoleon's Guard during the fight for Fuentes. So I intend to model my grenadiers in bearskins. Any changes in prescribed uniforms usually took longer to take effect in Spain due to the obvious problems of supply |
| Artilleryman | 27 Mar 2013 12:08 p.m. PST |
Greg and Fritz, I think that you have hit on a reality there. Certainly the Garde used to march in bicornes and put on their bearskins for battle and parade (until, according to Coignet, they threw the chapeaux away crossing the Danube onto Lobau in 1809). Also before the shako was introduced, line grenadiers sometimes marched in their chapeaux and even fought in them so extending the practice to shakos and bonnets á police makes lots of sense. |
| Big Red | 27 Mar 2013 2:23 p.m. PST |
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| baltojake | 27 Mar 2013 2:29 p.m. PST |
I seem to remember reading somewhere, (maybe Elting?), that a regt. of line infantry, (maybe the 30th?), went into Russia in 1812 with all of the members of its' grenadier companies wearing bearskins, (at that time it is my impression that shakos would have been the norm for grenadiers), some of the expense for them being paid out of the Colonel's pocket. When the Regt. came out of Russia only a handfull of the grenadiers survived but all or almost all of the bearskins returned to France. Of course I could be mistaken in this as I cannot remember the source. John Miller |
looks at the new U.S.S. Constitution for Black Seas.
