"Opinions on Idistaviso" Topic

Good evening,

Interested in refighting Idistaviso. Have started the research but thought it might be rewarding to mine the wealth of experience and opinion on this forum.

Has anyone staged this battle? What rules were used? What sources were used? Anyone know of a good scholarly article or two about the clash between Germanicus and Arminius?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Chris,

If you wiki (I can't believe I've just said that, but still not bad for a starter….) this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Weser_River you will find all the online links for access to the relevant sections of Tacitus which is "scholarly" good enough.

If you can get Warry, J. 1980, Warfare in the Classical World, where there is a small excerpt on the battle with a diagram / map.

I hope this helps.

There is a nice AAR for a refight of Idistaviso using Hail Caesar here:
link

"If you wiki" – hah! That should be on a T-shirt!

Have looked at the wiki site, have checked out Tacitus from the library, and have copied and pasted the blog entry re the HC staging of the battle. And this all started with Warry. Appreciate the referral.

I guess I'm looking for something more, especially with regard to the Roman/Auxiliary cavalry.

Thanks for replying!

Chris

I can't really help, I'm afraid: for the very first UK Armati event, we used pre-set battle tables based on historical battles, and Idistaviso was one which I did (as it is that rarity – an ancient battle not fought in a wide open space) …

But then 'all comers' got to fight over the battlefield and it was a while back. It gave good games under the Advanced version of Armati, that's all I can say.

Phil
PS – I don't know if you are a member of the Society of Ancients, Chris … but on the SoA Forum, there is now a 'battles' board where people start up topic threads on battles they know about or are interested in (around 40 battles have there own threads now. Not Idistaviso, yet, but it might go well in that environment …) …

I use to say the same thing once upon a time about Wiki but not anymore. Apart from avoiding some obvious mistakes and just plain "bs" articles, wiki is getting better as there has been a concerted effort for consistently factual information with back-up to sources and references, with additional material being added as well as updated / changed / reflected upon by leading scholars… so try not knock it too much. IMHO wiki will, with the continuous push for enhanced quality control etc, end up being the world's encyclopaedia on everything….(and why not?)

I forgot to mention I'm not entirely convinced of the Roman Cavalry in the forest. I'm currently typing up my notes of the Germanic wars from the past 15 years – reading spider writing is not easy so it will take a while! There is more to the battle than meets the eye, and is part of a larger operation.

There are probably scholarly articles out there (none spring to mind at the moment) but all will have been drawn from Tacitus, plus, if you can read German and Dutch you will be in luck as more and more material on the Germanic tribes is being released in those languages (that and continued archaeological information).

Sorry, I can't help you any further at the moment, but if you do get further information please do keep us updated as it will be interesting what others have to say about this battle.

Had recently picked up Michael McNally, Teutoburg Forest AD 9: The Destruction of Varus and his Legions, Illus. Peter Dennis (Osprey Campaign, 2011). Followed the bread crumbs -- as the Roman response had, to me, always seemed rather weak… Inquiring minds…

Seems the place name Idistaviso has been amended by modern researches as Idisiaviso, and means "plain of the Idisi." In Old High German itis (Old Saxon idis; Anglo-Saxon ides), may have denoted a kind of goddess or demi-goddess. Also seems to have equated to what we call the Valkyrie.

So, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm… If the battle site is called after these demi-goddesses, it doesn't seem that they helped Herman!! Eh?? On the other hand, considering Herman the German was assassinated by his own kind, maybe a large number of his contemporaries felt he had lost the favor of the gods, but that the gods had not abandoned his MEN so completely? That is, that the Idisi would, Valkyrie-like, act as guardians of the Germanic tribal coalition's dead?