"What's in the box? Scotia Grendel Domes & Corridors" Topic

A quick out of the box review of Scotia Grendel Productions so-called 28mm domes and corridors
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Trojan Points

Looking at your review, there are two things to bear in mind.

First, the miniature you chose as a comparison has a base and the domes don't have bases so immediately appear a few mm shorter.

Second, the miniature you chose appears to be a Dust miniature(?). They are a little taller than the standard GW sized 28mm miniature.

I will say that the other Scotia Grendel stuff, the vehicles in particular, tend to be more towards the 25mm size so I expect that these will look slightly small compared to other 28mm stuff but I think the comparison images are a little unfair.

It seems a fair review apart from that and, as a result of your post, I am likely to get some of the domes/corridors for my Grymn (28mm Space Dwarfs) as they look to be perfect for the job :)

Fair enough… I assumed that the bases where clearly visible on the picture (not to mention that pretty much every mini has one) and thus went without saying.

As for the "28mm" mini it's a AT-43 mini (a French prepaint sci-fi game, now defunct), and that's about the only 28mm I still own (except for a GW fantasy dwarf). Not sure how it compares to 40K or Dust: it's 32mm base to eyes.

And yes, I guess 28mm space dwarves or space hobbits would be cool with them!

I'll try to borrow a GW SM from my brother for a new pic when he's back ashore.

I wonder how a GZG 25mm fig would size up to them… might be just right.

The door is just 25mm high, as are the firing slits… So I guess that a true 25mm figure (an hypothetic one not lugging a 1m wide chunk of concrete around) would have to duck somewhat to pass the door and would be just about right to fire its weapon through the slit.

Also keep in mind that this terrain was originally done over 20 years ago to go with Grenadier's Kryomek range of figures. 25mm was still the standard at that time, not the current 28mm (or larger).

Guys, I'm not trying to throw flak at those models here.

I understand the reason behind their scaling, but I do find them undersized for 28mm (which is after all the scale for which they're advertised on the manufacturer website).

I game 15mm and I'm pretty happy about them.

I guess the optimal mini size would be somewhere around 20-25mm (measured from base to eyes).

As Insomniac pointed out the base on the Mini does play a role in the perspective and these bits really shine with the 25mm figures like GZG, Grenadiers Star Wars figures, Denizens….
I use the tracked APC's (all 9 of them)with my Grymn figures and the dropship looks good with them too!

FABET01 pretty much nailed it. I first saw these around '93 – in the folded two-page black and white order form/catalog. Do you remember what else was on the market for 25mm or 28mm sci-fi terrain around that time?

Pretty much nothing.

So even if these looked small when they came out, they seemed like gold. It meant that sci-fi games could be fought around futuristic terrain… look at the fantasy farmhouses and bridges in contemporary 40K White Dwarf articles to see the alternatives. :) Armorcast and Epicast started to put stuff out a bit later, and then Games Workshop released those card-and-plastic Firebase and Bastion models.

I have seen these mounted on 1/4" hardboard bases – that helps them look okay next to GZG 25's. But even then, the hospital/hab dome looks like it might hold three cots at the most. At 1:100 through 1:72, these really look like they can be used for their "stated" purposes.

Very jealous of the collection, Hans. I've wanted a huge set of these since I first took home that black and white catalog in '93. :)

-Chris K.

These are really cool, hadn't seen them before. They look perfect for 15mm… thanks for the review!

I think the size comparison is fair.
I also think the comment about the texture is fair.

Wearing my Old Codgers hat, I rememeber reviewing these when they were released 20 years ago in Practical Wargamer.

I think your review covers the broad sweep of the range but it'd be good to see a couple of the other useful features highlighted. Like how do they paint up and how do they look with (some more) 15mm figures and vehicles.

When I last looked at some they struck me as being ideal for moden 1/100th scale games. They were small – even back in the day – for 25mm figures. The doorways were tight (as one might expect them to be in an environment such as this [anyone ever try to squeeze through the doors in a cross chanel ferry?]) but the domes themselves were actually quite small and the corridors were (realistically) rather tight as well.

But the usful thing is that I believe that there is nothing on them that shouts 'scale' so they are very flexible. The slit windows (firing ports?) might be slightly high for 15mm but maybe the interior floors are raised (the underfloor pipework and heating etc) so I can hack that. The doors are ok for 1/100th and the domes are a good, usable size for this scale.

I also think that, regarding the surface texture, where I really didn't like it applied to the Grendel vehicles very much, I did like it on the buildings: I thought they gave it exactly that cast-concrete, bolted together look. And, I can tell you right now, they dry brush up an absolute treat!

If you play in 25mm (old GZG/Denizen syle) these do work quite well. Certainly well enough. If you use 20mm or modern 15mm (ie 17.5mm as in 1/100th) I think they'd work exceptionally well: they have a real UFO Moonbase feel about them.

I'd highly recommend them but – as I no longer own any – can I ask Trojan that you do put some out for some snaps with some other 15mm figures and vehicles? That'd be really handy (and might even get me to invest in some more!)

Oh – I forgot to mention: in a world where more and more people seem keen on buildings with interiors (me – I'm not bothered, but others seem to be) can I just make the obvious statement: these are not hollow domes. These are 'don't drop these on your foot' solid resin…

If I were buying them again, I'd be adding my own domes in different sizes to make a bigger complex (quite easy to do with half domes, pva glue and sand etc) and connecting them up with spare corridor sections.

John T

The slit windows (firing ports?) might be slightly high for 15mm but maybe the interior floors are raised (the underfloor pipework and heating etc) so I can hack that.

I'd simply treat them as high windows used for natural lighting rather than firing ports. But I've thought about your idea too. The protruding doorways could easily have a few stairs inside – leading up to an elevated floor within the domes.

If I were buying them again, I'd be adding my own domes in different sizes to make a bigger complex (quite easy to do with half domes, pva glue and sand etc) and connecting them up with spare corridor sections.

Hm… now you have me thinking about converting some giant novelty plastic easter eggs into domes using CorSec flat-pack bits…

-Chris K.

Great Review.

As for the AT43 mini, I've seen a few of these and it's only a touch taller than a GW mini.

As folks have said, these are small, even when put next to GXG or denizen figs. They are just barely adequate for 25mm and I do think it's quite misleading for Scotia to label them as 28mm.

As to those defending the models, yes they are old, but they are NOT 28mm models and the reviewer was right to point that out. A far better thing would be for them to be re-marketed as 15mm structures.

If I saw them and ordered a bunch for 28mm without seeing something like the review above, I would be Pissed Off!

Interestingly, I have this dome:

It's about the only one that I think is adequate for 28mm, but that's mainly because it doesn't have any doors on it.

I use these for both 15mm and 20mm. IMO they are great for both scales.

A link to a pic of some of mine painted up: link

Links to pics of a battle scene with 20mm figs:
link
link
(including the missile bunker)

Sorry, no close-ups to hand. I could do some later tonight.

Stuart

Some gamers have also used these buildings, as well as the vehicles, for 28mm Squats. Just reiterating that they look best with smaller minis.

Stuart, nice job on those. I especially like the blue glass and domes, it's a nice pop of color.

I put them together with hasslefrees Grymn(space dwarves) they fit pretty good. I will also use them with 15mm. anything larger would not really work.

Love mine for 15mm

Nice work Stuart.

John T

those painted pictures make me want it even more!

Love the comment regarding using body parts to measure thing ;-) going to use that with my American chums next time we speak.
Good review, I think the scale is slightly small compared today's oversized 28mm figures. Looks ideal for 15mm!

These are cool – remember the old adverts too…

Seeing them all set out as in the OP's link has me thinking that's a big chunk of terrain to trot soldiers around if needs be.
I might be inclined to cobble up some sort of central pass over using stairs and a bit of catwalk… a bit of a gamble for troops in a hurry to get to the other side maybe.

Stuart: excellent job on the painted ones.

Theses are perfectly suited for any 15mm and or true 25mm scale figures, they would be ideal for any Lunascape with no atmosphere or Space 1999 type games, now i think about it they would make a great looking Terra forming colony or maybe a deep periphery penal facility. I had a few of these buildings back in the day and i have always regreted parting with them…

Second, the miniature you chose appears to be a Dust miniature(?). They are a little taller than the standard GW sized 28mm miniature.

Here are a couple of comparison between GW and Rackam AT-43…

I would like to point out that GW now states the size of their miniatures as 35mm…. Which makes their Space Marines™ in scale with 25mm…..

But the Scotia Grendal stuff was done back in the day when 1 inch on the table equaled 2 meters, so the domes worked with the ground scale.

Right now I am wishing I had bought all that a local store had when they where blowing them out a few years ago.

While on the subject of AT-43 terrain has anyone noticed that the AT-43 walls are also textured in the same manor as the Scotia, Kryomek domed buildings so they would match up very nicely indeed.

"Fair enough… I assumed that the bases where clearly visible on the picture (not to mention that pretty much every mini has one) and thus went without saying."

Yes, the base is clearly visible and as a result gives a poor comparison (perspective wise) when compared to a building that doeasn't have the same thickness base. A fairer comparison would be to either remove the base on the miniature or raise the building on a few nicely spaced bases to raise it the same amount.

"As for the "28mm" mini it's a AT-43 mini (a French prepaint sci-fi game, now defunct), and that's about the only 28mm I still own (except for a GW fantasy dwarf). Not sure how it compares to 40K or Dust: it's 32mm base to eyes."

A 28mm miniature (in theory) should be 28mm from the top of the base to eye level. Why this is so, I don't know. Trying to find miniatures that satisfy that criteria is probably quite difficult.

I like reading reviews because they can be very helpful. That said, when you review things, you have to level the playing field. By that I mean things should be of equal comparison… things measured from the same places, raised the same amount, pictured against the same scale etc. If not, the review will be biased/unfair in some way.

If you want to compare things against miniatures, ideally you need a couple from different manufacturers so that there is more likelyhood of people recognising them. If you can't do that, put a ruler beside the object so there is a proper measurement for people to see.

The language you use is also important. Using the term "so-called 28mm" adds bias straight away and gives the impression that you have a grudge against the product. Instead… be factual about the product throughout and sum up your views at the end. That way, it gives the viewer the opportunity to form an opinion before you get to voice your own.

All that aside, your review has helped me to decide that I need to buy some of these :)

I have all of those somewhere tucked away in the garage. They are OK and I used them as extra terrain in games like Killzone. I don't think it would take much to adjust them to be suitable domes for 15mm. I am not going to rush out and pull mine out of storage though but I think they could be adjusted for the smaller scale.

@Insomniac

Thank you for the lecture on how to write a review!

Unlike you I consider fairness and bias to be two different things and not mutually exclusive. Yes I do have a bias (and everyone does have one and does express it willingly or not; perfect objectivity is a myth) but I do consider it fairer to both the product and the reader to be upfront with it rather than to claim objectivity. As a matter of fact, I'm way more careful with review that seem/claim neutrality and I actually prefer clearly biased ones where I know where to stand and which precautions to take when forming my opinion.

But then again, I guess we can agree to disagree. I won't lose any sleep over it. Pun intended.

Fair enough.

I found a couple of these Kryomek domes after searching for a few days(hospital and command) so i placed a small order for another hospital a barrack dome and two 'Y'corridors to form a small Luna base or whatever. I think i have enough AT-43 small walls to fortify it and also create a small compound. :)

Thanks for the review. I picked up a huge load of that stuff years ago at a flea market and never did anything with it.

But now that I'm thinking of getting into 15mm sci-fi, I might have to dig these out.

@Stuart, Awesome paint job. I will use your paint scheme for inspiration.

Oh one other thing. I've seen people mount the domes on thick MDF board to give it a little height. It worked well.

Cheers, Xin

They are perfect for 15mm, been buying then for that purpose for a while now.

Xintao: you're welcome!

Nice review, thank you Trojan Points.

I too have been using these Grendel domes for 15mm. If you put a 15mm GZG door over the original, the scale shift effect is stronger. I'll try to post some pics shortly.

Here's a pic of the smaller missile domes, being defended by 15mm GZG NAC:

From my blog:
link

More of the same:
link

Best regards,
Keith F.

Look great for 15mm for me, thanks for the posting and the review.

This recent discussion has certainly got me thinking again about this resin range.

I had long ago stopped looking at them for 28mm stuff (and got rid of what I had) but the 15mm options are certainly there.

John T

I'm pleased that this thread inspired me to get off my butt and find a couple of the domes from my original collection of Kryomek stuff. I think that i'll add a few more bits in time but they are not on my priority list…

@kmfrye: nice job, looking forward too see the other building; I should really get around painting mine!

@John: not exactly a recent discussion ;)