"New 28mm Mexican revolution additions from Gringo40s" Topic

Just to advise i have now added a swather of new releases

to my Mexican Revolution range with the first of the

cavalry figures……..Soldaderaa…Federales..and more

Villistas…….do take a look under "Mexican Revolution"

on gringo40s.com

thanks for looking

regards

Ged

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and 28mm expanding ranges

Intersting and nice!

I wait for some US motorcycles with their crew!

thanks Argsilverson,,these are under consideration!!

regards

Ged

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and 28mm ranges

Very nice.

Like the new Alamo figures also.

thanks Warwizard……….appreciate the comments

regards
Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Viva Mehico!

Great news looking forward to seeing them in the flesh.

thanks Malamute!!………..

They look wonderful! I've seen photos of a soldadera with binoculars that must have been your inspiration. I also love that you are sculpting Federales from the earlier period of the war wearing the kepis, shakos, & sun helmets.

The only thing I would change is that you label the Villistas as holding "muskets" when it is obvious they are "rifles"…. By the time of the revolution, the only person that might have had a musket would have been an old geezer in Moreles fighting under Zapata!

-Elaine

Elaine

thanks for the positive feedback glad you like the figures

i want to cover all permutations as you wisely summise

i will change the "musket" to rifle of course….

much more to follow!!

regards

Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Those are really great figures for the Alamo.

link

link

link

Contratulations Jammy!.

Amicalement
Armand

P.S.- You might want to update your upcoming shows page.

Warwizard thanks for pointing that out my guy who

is updating my site has a list as long as my arm with

all these new releases! expect a full update within the

next ten days

kind regards

Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Why do these posts always appear on the 19th century boards? Last time I looked The Mexican Revolution occurred in the 20th century.

I know the Mexican Federal army had a dubious combat record, but that doesn't excuse persistent descriptions of figures representing its infantry as police.

The only units that can be said with certainty to have worn pouch-belt equipment were cadets and perhaps one or two other elite formations.

One of each type isn't of much use from a gaming perspective. And the pose choice thus far isn't very inspiring. The Federales were normally on the defensive, so the obvious option is firing line variants.

The figure in kepi is simply a direct copy of a drawing from the El Dorado booklet. By all means use this source for information/inspiration, but why not inject a little more imagination into the posing of the product.

I've said elsewhere that no current figures are depicted wearing the exposed clip bandolier; I missed the standing 'policeman' shown here. Hopefully future releases will be more imaginatively posed, though.

Socket bayonets? Like all bolt action repeaters, the Mauser was issued with a sword bayonet. Also, close examination of the breech area of the rifle of the figure in pith helmet suggests that it has a percussion lock!

Amazing figures !!! Ged's the MAN!!!! really impressive work on this range!!!!

A couple of pictures of Geds new figures

Looking good so far

Mark

Beautifull!!

Amicalement
Armand

These are undoubtedly the most superb, most magnificent, most stupendously fantabulously incredible miniature works of art anywhere in this or any other universe since the big bang and until the last molecule of matter (light AND dark) winks out of material existence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Ged is a GOD!!!!! No… Ged is THE GOD!!!!(Sarcasm? Perish the thought… I just want to join the sycophantastic party).

Gee, Henry. They are nice figures & they, as you pointed out, do have problems as well.

I agree with you in that they would probably receive more attention if they had been posted in the early 20th century or World War I board. A lot of younger folk see the "19" as the first 2 digits in a year & think it is the 19th century. You will also find time to time, folk who will post ACW & Napoleonic information on the 18th century boards making the same mistake.

While Madera tended to view the army as "policemen", certainly those who came after him, Huerta, Carranza, Obergeon, et al knew they were using a trained military force. A point that you didn't make is that a lot of vendors list the rebels as "Villistas", which is a shame. Hollywood has done a lot with Pancho Villa, but Villa was not the only rebel leader. Also, too many vendors seem to sculpt only rebels wearing somberos & vaquero garb, when rebels came from all walks of life & wore all kinds of clothing available to civilians in the early 20th century. You would expect to see some wearing fedoras, slouch hats, & even the "Montana" campaign cover. I hope this will come in time with this line.

As far as the weapons, I would probably just remove the bayonets. I've seen very few photographs of the period with the bayonets fixed. You are correct in that the socket bayonet is out of place. I can't tell what type of firing mechanism is on the rifle held by the soldier with the sun helmet.

You do raise some points about the sculpts. For a conflict that lasted at least 10 years, 1000s of photographs, & reels of film, you would think there was more written about it & have a better understanding of the forces involved.. I've yet to find an English source with any real order of battle other than "Villa had some 40,000 vs. a Federal force of 35,000" or most often I find only "the rebels attacked (insert city name) with a large force"

I'm not familiar with the Dorado booklet which you mention, & I'm afraid my Google fu is weak on this one. Is it a book by or translated by David Dorado Romo?

Anyway, I do want to encourage Ged to continue with this range. I hope to see some of the personalities sculpted that haven't been done, or done well by other companies. Would love to see an early Pascual Orozco for example.

Ged certainly has much more sculpting talent than I have. This range is new for him & may be a stretch since he has been sculpting 19th century figures. But that is speculation on my part.

You made some valid points. But they are nice figures & much of what you pointed out can be easily fixed & some (for good or bad) will never be noticed on the gaming table. If you are frustrated by these figures, try collecting figures for the American Plains Wars. Companies tend to only sculpt John Ford-style "7th Cavalry" & generic looking Indians.

-Elaine

I'm afraid, Elaine, that I don't find these figures as worthy of infinite superlatives as you and the rest of the fanpersons. To my eye they're pretty ordinary from a sculpting perspective: compare these to the work of, for example, the Perry brothers, and – more pertinently perhaps – Paul Hicks (despite one major flaw, his Mexican Revolution output for Brigade Games is very good);there's simply no comparison. The proportions are odd, the sculpting mediocre, poses are mostly dull and lifeless and hardly representative of troops in action, there's only one of each Federal type,and then there's the catastrophic blunder with the armament. How could the sculptor have made such an error? He would have to be ignorant of even the fundamentals of military history, and illiterate to boot.

The post was a response to the neverending nauseating sycophantasist Gedlovefest. There was no more reason to discuss what companies may or may not call their MR rebels than there was to give you my thoughts on the latest stock market data.

You seem to be hinting that Ged is an untutored teenager. That would certainly explain the ongoing chronological cretinism.

Why is successfully sculpting MR figures any more difficult than sculpting figures for another period?

I have Foundry 28mm Indian Wars US Cavalry, and they are depicted in authentic field clothing of the period they represent – and they carry the correct weapons. Just to counter your blanket condemnation of the many companies that produce Indian Wars figures with attention to accuracy and detail, I actually can't think of any contemporary 28mm manufacturer that makes Hollywood-style US Cavalry; please name one.

As you must know, disingenuous assertions aside, the only other companies making dedicated MR rebels are Outpost, Old Glory, Britannia, and Brigade Games, and most of these ranges are token or incomplete. Personally I don't care what they call them, as long as they're accurate, and certainly some of them aren't (e.g. Outpost's dismounted Villista cavalry, which inexplicably are depicted in Old West style full-leg chaps rather than the the knee or thigh-length leggings actually worn). Not that it's in any way relevant, but contrary to another of your wildly generalist assertions, the only figures in these ranges in full traditional vaquero costume are the Outpost rurales, and to an extent, the Old Glory rurales. All the others wear contemporary workers' or peones' costume.

Anyway, Ged's Villistas are no different costume-wise to any of the others on the market. Perhaps you're trying to muddy the waters by referencing all the Old West bandits out there, which of course aren't Mexican Revolution figures.

The booklet in question, which was clearly used as a reference source by the Gringo40s sculptor, is "Notes on the Mexican Army 1900-1920', originally by El Dorado Books, and now published by On Military Matters.

Outpost makes an early Pascual Orozco.

The desperate tone of your defence leads me to suspect that you may be Ged's mum.

Dear Mr Martini,
Ged is very god like in my eyes.
In a hobby that has many drab puritans , I find he adds
a blaze of colour and panache .
A very handsome and attractive adventurer of the
gaming table.

Cheerio
Olive

?

Steady on geezer,
Ged is the ace face on this manor.
He can't help it , if people like him and
look at the reaction in the crumpet
department. The bloke is cut above,
like it or not.

Chin up
Sid

Olive……..what can i say if i has a plumed hat i would

doff it!!………you must have Aztec blood in your veins

they recognised a God when they saw one!!

and good old Sydney if ever we meet the first two rounds

are on me!

please note i have an audience with pappa frank the first

nextweek please refer all future comments to the vatican

attention Ged……….

Atomic Floozy

appreciate the contructive and usefull comments and would be

happy for you to list any figures you feel would enhance

the range.ie Pascual Orozco or any other "personality"

of interest/worth.

The main reason i do all these ranges is purely born out

of passion …….and yes im sure somethings are missed

but everthing is rectifiable ..asked my site guy to

change muskets to rifles…(easier then wine to water!!)

hes also making me new weapons mausers etc…….

lots of exciting new figures/artillery/and equipment

to come.

regards

Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Thanks, Ged. Henry raised some good points in his critique. I'm sure as you progress in this period that the figures will be even better. You have some good competition. I''ve heard some say that Old Glory's "Pancho Villa & Pershing in Mexico" range is one of the best ranges Old Glory has done. The Outpost range is also very good. There's opportunity here to do things the other lines haven't done & do some things they have done with your own flair.

So listen to voices of encouragement, but don't shut out voices of honest critics like Henry who want to see your sculpts be better by making them more dynamic & accurate to what we see in the historical record.

Gads, I do sound like a grandmother.

-Elaine

Oh – can ya feel the LURVE, brothas 'n' sistas?!

Actually, I'd like to see a late Pascual Orozco: flustered and embarrassed, but hoping the corn chips and bottle of tequila he's brought will compensate for his lack of punctuality.

Atomic

a neat bit of summimg up………..sure i listen..beneath
every barb is a kernal of a decent comment..!

i do believe we have some consensus on the next desirable
personality to be lovingly sculpted…feel free to post some
decent pics of the guy .that would help…inspiration is the
fuel to initiate the crafting of putty into pewter.!!

in fact any of the lesser personalities are worth considering just for a fresh angle on the subject

i have a bunch of stuff at the casters now..viva and
arriba!!

regards
Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Since Outpost already has a Pascual Orozco…. perhaps a sculpt of one of Villa's generals, Rodolfo Fierro, "El Carnicero", would be better.

He was portrayed in the movie "Villa Rides" by Charles Bronson. Here is a song about him along with several pictures:

youtu.be/LBKO9wBpiW4

Rodolfo 'the Butcher' Fierro, psychopath, mass murderer, and talented guerilla cavalry general? Interesting, but hardly an essential inclusion at this early stage of development. This project is already looking decidedly top heavy.

How about correcting the faults in the existing releases and expanding on them to build a wargames-usable range of toy soldiers, Senor Cronin.

Gents

looking for someone to post up a close up

of the "exposed clip bandolier"…i fact the

definative Fedral trooper…

Saludetes

Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

Keep up with the good work Jammy!!

Amicalement
Armand

The Federales plate in the relevant Osprey has as close up an image of this style of bandolier as you're likely to need, but considering that one of your figures (the Federal, ahem… policeman) is already depicted wearing this item, why would you need it?

You seem to be very directionless when it comes to production and release scheduling and packaging. This is hard to understand, considering that there's a standard model that all the established and successful manufacturers have developed, refined and used for many years. There's no mystery whatsoever about it; it's really just common sense: to start with, focus on the basic troop types that are essential to building an army, and release them all at the same time, or at least in close succession, in packs of between four and eight pose variants of the same troop type in the same uniform/costume (allowing for appropriate minor variations if regular, or greater variation if irregular/non-uniformed). When you've done that, and with adequate promotion, you should see interest and sales build, giving you the cash flow to add the high command and other 'trimmings'. With this process customers will feel confident that you're committed to the period and will themselves commit to collecting armies, confident that they won't be left with useless part-armies as would happen if you failed to complete the range.

The way you go about releasing figures defies logic. It's random and systemless, and is guaranteed to produce low sales: back to front, with high command first, and for the rank and file one each of this and that, in mostly unimaginative and lifeless poses. For the same investment of sculpting and production time and money that's gone into useless random releases, you could have already got a few essential and complete infantry packs onto the market. A manufacturer who does the sort of thing you've been doing will then say 'oh, they're not selling, so clearly there's no interest in the subject and no demand for figures, so I'll move on to something else'; very silly.

And doing the necessary basic research so that figures are actually wearing the correct costume and equipment, and armed with the correct weapons is also a good idea.

Thanks Tango……….

Saludetes

Ged

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and 28mm ranges

But maybe I've got it all wrong and this apparent schmozzle is intentional. Maybe you're not really interested in mass sales to wargamers, but would rather drag out the release process so as to perpetuate the 'lovefest' for as long as possible and provide endless mediocre fodder for your acolytes' adolescent apoplectic adulation.

" To know him is to love him "

Olive

C'est un honneur de vous connaitre madame

mes meilleures salutations

Ged

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and expanding 28mm ranges

en avant!!

I'm quite sure anyone who has their own figure range appreciates constructive criticism and comments. No doubt the research that goes into each range varies with the interest, quality of research and availability of information. However, regardless of the information and sources that you have, someone will always be there to claim you are wrong. The reality is often that multiple truths often existed (or at least were perceived that way at the time) so more than one  situation may be perfectly valid. Any technical issues aside, in terms of terminologies usef it appears that Gringo 40s have gone with what sounds like a primary source or at least secondary source document in order to make a decision but there are still shouts of 'wrong'. History and archaeology are to a not unsignificant extent about reasoned interpretation of the available evidence. It looks like Gringo 40s are prepared to spend tine and money to correct some things but overall I would guess their foray into these periods is appreciated by more people than there are detractors. Can we not show encouragement and provide reasoned arguement and discussion in these situations in order that everyone ultimately benefits?

I love you Ged, I hope you know that xxx ;D

Elk – Your attempts to smokescreen shoddy research and basic ignorance in a cloud of post-modernist social theory are ridiculous in the extreme. Ideas about the contingent character of social phenomena don't translate to the interpretation of details of costume,equipment and weapons used by early 20th century armed forces. These are not matters for academic debate and discourse; they're absolutes that are thoroughly and repeatedly documented and verifiable with copious photographic evidence. There are no 'multiple truth's here; the standard issue rifle of the Mexican Federal army of the revolutionary period WAS the Mauser with sword bayonet. I'm afraid that sometimes 'wrong' is simply and unavoidably 'wrong'.

Reasoned argument? Discussion? Have you actually read any of the posts in this thread? Not once has the Love Guru responded to my valid criticisms and suggested improvements in any fashion other than with an occasional oblique 'dig', and as for the cultists – just look at the posts that bracket your own.

Ged is my hero!!! Truly wuly!!!

P. S. 'insignificant, and 'argument'.

You do make one useful point regarding the potential impact of typos and spelling mistakes on dialogue. My first one was a small-screen typo I failed to notice (i & u being adjacent on a qwerty keyboard); my second was a clear error on my part. That point aside it is evident that the sign at the zoo was right, "Don't feed the monkeys".

Bugsda

i feel the same but in a manly way!!xx

Elk101……..your input is next to none

your spelling sublime….

as the lovgod says ……….one day soon

"finalement…sic temper tyrannis!!!"

I has a little stretch at the scrubs . A little
porridge can help with the bonze matter.

I love you Ged too, I can't wait to party with you at Salute.

Ah, what sublimely original wit! Blowing more smoke, Elk! Always the easy alternative to a reasoned and intelligent riposte, I suppose.

I feel the heavy sense of drowsiness and the peculiar feeling of detachment from mundane reality departing. Oh no! Ged the Love Guru and his pixie-like tribe are receding into the psychedelic rainbow haze. But they're real – I know they're real! They must be real! Please – tell me it wasn't all just some EM field-induced hypnogogic phantasm! Goodbye Ged! Goodbye Olive! Farewell Bugsda! Goodbye Sydney! So long Atomic Floozy! Goodbye to La La Land foreveeeeee…..

Was that your reasoned and intelligent riposte Professor Martini?

The unfortunate thing in all if this is that it sounds like you could be helpful with your knowledge on this yet you choose to alienate people with your comments.