"First Time Dipping With Minwax, A Couple Questions" Topic

I'm going to try the dipping method for the first time and have everything I need to get started. I'm dipping some 28mm Vikings for SAGA first, then will give it a shot with some 28mm Fallschirmjaeger. 2 questions:

I'm going to paint designs on the Viking shields, should I do this at the same time as the base coat or wait until after I've dipped? Good shield designs are pretty vibrant and using lighter colors with a greater contrast could keep the designs clear after the dip has darkened everything but I want to get it right the first time so I'll ask here.

Second question is along the same lines. When dipping a model with Fallschirmjaeger (or any) camo pattern do I paint the camo then dip it or paint the camo after the dip is dried?

Again, I just want to get this right the first time. Dipping looks like a great method that will save a lot of time.

I use a brush on 15mm troops. I paint everything first then "dip". Start at the top and brush down.

And brush it off pretty aggressively. It doesn't take much to do what you want it to do.

Dip will darken everything. It's scarcely noticeable on medium-to-dark colors, like German Green Gray or browns. But it really is noticeable on lighter colors like white and yellow.

Part of the magic comes from coating everything, and letting the dip settle into recesses. So skipping an area usually stands out as something done wrong. Painting on top of dip demotes it to just another layer of color, so I'd go ahead and do your full camo before dipping.

So if you want your shield hilights to stay really vibrant, you might want to retouch them after you dip. You might be happy with the varnished look, too.

It's a pain, but you might want to dip one of each type of figure, and see if it's doing what you hoped it would do.

I paint, dip, highlight, clearcoat.

I also brush on the 'dip.'

I would complete the painting first. I think it will look strange if some parts aren't dipped. I dip then flick – much quicker than painting it on, but with more wastage.

Dip and use paper towel to soak puddles.

Glad to see this post as I have been considered going this route for large projects. I love to paint miniatures but my many layers of shading and highlight take time. I took a look at the Army Painter system but $24.00 USD bucks for a small can of what is basically Minwax was a bit off putting. I mean for that much can you not buy about twice as much Minwax at the hardware store? DIY stores to you Brits out there.

Thanks for the replies. I'll paint everything, dip it, then see how it looks after it dries. I'll do 1 model of each and not assembly line them. Fingers crossed for a good result…

Interesting question

For my Vikings I used to paint everything then dip – now I paint the figs, dip (well, actually apply with a brush), spray with matt varnish and then attach and paint the shields – makes the bright colours stand out better

For those gerbil-burgers, a straight up dip and spray

whitemanticore I got a quart of Minwax (Polyshades) at Home Cheapo for $12 USD yesterday. A lot better than Army Painter prices.

Did gerbil-burgers fire gerbilwerfers?

Whatever you choose to do, just do one sample figure first and allow to fully dry. You may find that either thickness of application or shade or tone of the dip that you are using has differing effects that you may want to modify.

For example, I found I had to go a little easy on the light blue trousers of union infanty because the shade I was using resulting in a sort of bronzing cast if applied too thickly – while the jackets, hats and particularly the skin tones looked great, so I would gloop everything thickly with a brush and then brush the excess of the trousers.

I have also found that I tend to go one shade brighter on all of my paint colors so that they mute down to the desired shade when the dip is brushed on.

I have just went through this process for the first time and I found that it muted the bright colors on some knights a little more than I wanted, so I went back and did some highlights after the brush on of "the dip" and then seal coated. If I could use a paint that is one shade brighter than I want the finished product to be, that would save a step. I will try that on the next batch. I did find, however, that adding a highlight after the Minwax was applied, gives a little more depth to the color by leaving a little of the duller color showing around the edges (sorry for the run on).

Allen

I've tried the Minwax Polyshades and was unhappy. Then, I took a chance with the Army Painter Strong Tone dip and am a believer. The Army Painter seems to be thinned to right consistency and worked much better than the Minwax, at least for me.

I dipped my 28 mm Fallschirmjager recently. Here's a link to the photos on my blog: link

Note, like many others, I paint the dip on and soak up any puddles.

John B.
TabletopHistory.blogspot.com

Bryan Stroup-That's exactly was I was thinking. I will go a shade lighter with my colors.

John B-Thanks for the pics.

I agree with John B's comments except that I sometimes use minwax for buildings/terrain.

I mostly use the Quicksade Soft Tone for light colours, strong tone for dark colours and Dark Tone for guns etc. The Soft Tone is the shade I use most frequently as it does not overly darken the figure. I always use brush application…brush lots on and then quickly wipe the brush and draw off the surplus escpecially from high lite areas.

I have "dipped "hundreds of figures in Minwax tutor satin.
Alt turned out well as long as it is brushed on and thinned out where it puddles.

I've tried varnish from the DIY shops and much prefer Army Painter. Yes it costs more but given that 1 tin will last for a couple of hundred figures, the cost is not really that significant, and well worth paying if it works better.

Whether you use Minwax, or Army Painter, try to only open the can when you have a large number of figures to use it with. Every time you open the can, the solution dries, losing fluid/solvent. Eventually, it will thicken, and become to strong to use, even though you feel you have not used it with "that many" figures. Some folks have tried to add chemicals to restore it, but they have enjoyed limited success.

You could try decanting it into smaller containers, but that can lead to faster drying. Experiment, see what you can achieve with them. Just beware that they will evaporate on you, over time. Cheers!

Anyone try to put on a clear acrylic (Future) and then use the Minwax? I've read that it doesn't dull down the lighter colors as much.

Sarge Slag I might try that.

There's a few recommendations for brushing the Minwax on. If I do go that route is turpentine the only thinner for my brushes?

Dragoon1064:

The paint's dried surface tends to be granular, and rough, which can cause flow issues with The Dip/Magic Wash solutions. If you apply Future (use it full strength, to gain maximum thickness, and protection), the Future will coat, and smooth, the surface, before The Dip is applied, which eliminates the flow issues [glossy paints have a smoother finish, than matte paints (typically talcum powder is added to them, giving them a rougher surface when dried), so using gloss paints might accomplish the same result]. Follow up with a matte clear coat to dull things, but don't over-apply it, or it may turn your figures milky-white.

Harkonnen13:

I've never thinned it, but I believe that paint thinner, from the hardware store, will do the trick. Ask the staff at the hardware store for confirmation of what to use to thin it out/clean it from your brushes. I use inexpensive, throw-away brushes for applying The Dip: school paint brushes, with bright colored plastic handles, a pack of 25 brushes for $1 USD, at Wal-Mart. They work great, I Dip in large batches at a time to get as much life out of a can of Minwax as possible, and then I discard the brushes when I am done. Minimal cost, minimal fuss, job completed with satisfactory results. Wear disposable gloves when you Dip, and put down some aluminum foil to protect your work surface (the solvent will go through four layers of wax paper, after an hour, or so -- don't ask how I know…) -- minimal cost, maximum protection. Cheers!

Thanks Sgt.

Great responses in this thread, it's much appreciated.

Sgt Slag

I agree with what you say, but can't help thinking, if you are using Future anyway, why not just add stain to the Future and use that as your "dip"? Future /magic wash has so many advantages, especially the fact that figures dry in a few minutes. You can brush it on 20 painted figures in about 5 minutes and, only a few minutes later, begin your highlighting.

For dipping I use disposable flux brushes. I found mine at Harbor Freight, but you can get them on Amazon too. 11 cents apiece there. They are bigger than children's brushes and so more efficient, especially for 28mm figures.

You can "thin" minwax using mineral spirits. I do the decanting thing and put it in old starbucks frappacino bottles. Add a marble when you do so for easier mixing later. Some of my dip has lasted for years in a second bottle this way.

Make sure when not using a freshly opened bottle of dip to check the consistency before using. If the liquid does not flow very easily (less viscous than water) either thin it until it does or do not use it.

As to why use minwax instead of tinted future, the answer is that the minwax works better. It is less viscous and so flows easier into crevices and ends up looking a bit better. In the same way the best oil based paints look better than acrylic for certain applications such as horses or deep blacks. That said it is more difficult to use. However as a final step in the process and given the ease of applying I find the tradeoff worthwhile.

Finally, I have sprayed on minwax dip. That really is fast and efficient! Obviously do it outside and wear a respirator but if you have a couple of hundred figures to do nothing is faster. I use the harbor freight quick change airbrush kit – it is a simple basecoating sprayer which I can find on sale for 7.99. Works great.
link

Steve is correct: Magic Wash (Future) is great, fast, and it can be tailored to any color wash needed, but it does not work as well, for shadowing in dark colors, as Minwax's Polyshades product. I love Future for its exceptionally fast drying, but it just does not deliver the same 'quality' as does the Minwax [I put my Dip'ed figures in my oven (dedicated-to-this-purpose cookie sheet covered with aluminum foil), at 175 F, for 30 minutes, to rapidly cure the Polyshades, oven door propped open, exhaust fan on High, nearby window open…].

Never thought about spraying Minwax onto figures… Excellent! Thanks for sharing, Steve! Cheers!

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I don't understand some of Steve's comments

As to why use minwax instead of tinted future, the answer is that the minwax works better. It is less viscous and so flows easier into crevices and ends up looking a bit better.

Surely you have this the wrong way around. Minwax is more viscous than Future. I use Future diluted with water at a 4:1 ratio, giving it a viscosity close to water. Getting pigments into the crevasses isn't the problem. The problem is keeping the pigments in the recesses. That is where the greater viscosity of Minwax or Army painter stains come in handy. This is handled by the Future pre-coat, as described by Sgt Slag.

As for staining darker colours, that's never been a problem, honestly. If I need some extra staining to provide more depth to my dark colours, I can add some Devlan Mud or the new Army Painter stains to the figure within minutes of applying the wash.

In the same way the best oil based paints look better than acrylic for certain applications such as horses or deep blacks.

I don't know what that has to do with the relative merits of Minwax over Future as a staining medium. The best oil based paints have more pigment per volume, just as the best acrylic paints have more pigment per volume compared to craft paints. Since I add the pigment to the Future myself, I have control of the amount of coverage I want or need.

I'm sure in your hands your techniques work great. In my hands I find I have much more control over what I'm doing using an acrylic medium to stain my figures. It's rather a subjective topic isn't it?

Hi Bowman,

Nothing argumentative, we're just dealing with opinions here.

Fresh Minwax is less viscous than water. In the same way that mineral spirits are less viscous than water.

However I may have misspoke – the real factor could be that water is a polar molecule and so evidences greater surface tension. In any case my experience has been that the minwax flows more easily into crevices.

Your mileage may of course vary

Sorry to be pedantic Steve, but I think you may be using the term "viscosity" incorrectly. Water is set at 1 cPoise at 20 degrees C. Going to Minwax's MSDS info shows a viscosity of 180-220 cPoise. That means Minwax is about 200 times more viscous than pure water.

Future polish is 80-90% water. Future's MSDS doesn't state it's viscosity value but it's specific gravity is only 1.026, compared to water at 1.0. That means it's viscosity will be only slightly higher than that of water.

Therein lies the biggest problem with using Future as a staining medium. It will flow into a figure's recess 200 times easier than Minwax (that's good), but it will also flow out of the recess 200 times faster (that's very bad). In other words it is 200 times more difficult to have your stain stay where you want it. I have to compensate for that. What I would really like is a very viscous Future concentrate that has the thickness of Minwax. Of course, if it were actually made, then J+J would have to charge Armybuilder prices.

Btw, next month I'm driving by your place twice, once for Adepticon, and then for Little Wars a week later. If you are going to either, we could meet up and compare figures, and you could give me a crash course on the "dip".

Thanks, Bowman, for the devil in the details… I've always felt that Minwax worked better than Future+Paint (Magic Wash), but I didn't know why, other than to say that the Minwax filled in the nooks, and crannies, better than the Future Wash did. Now I know why!

In an odd sort of way, I can answer your 'question' on making Future more viscous: let a large amount air dry a bit, in an open container; it will thicken up, becoming more viscous, but it may prove difficult to control the process with any accuracy (don't ask me how I know -- it just sort of happened…). Cheers!

In an odd sort of way, I can answer your 'question' on making Future more viscous: let a large amount air dry a bit, in an open container; it will thicken up, becoming more viscous, but it may prove difficult to control the process with any accuracy (don't ask me how I know -- it just sort of happened…). Cheers!

I thought about simmering it on low on the stove to decrease the water content. But I don't have the time or inclination. That's why I stain in the first place.

Exactly… That's why I went back to Minwax: better results (when dk. brown/black shading is needed…), always get the same shading (Future is always custom mixed), less prep-time. Cheers!

Guys, it is so good to hear these comments. I like Future, and have used it, but have not yet got it to work as well as my Army Dip, and I guess viscosity may be part of it.