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"Help for french flags of the battle Saint Quentin 1557" Topic


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jozzon26 Feb 2013 2:20 p.m. PST

Hello, I need specific flags for the french in the battle of Saint Quentin, in the mid of XVI. I know the generic flags, in camp blue, yellow or red and the white cross. Can someone help me

Daniel S26 Feb 2013 2:33 p.m. PST

I got this list a long time ago, wish I remember from where since I would like to give credit where it is due.

Standards
Captured at the St. Quentin 1557. From a document held by the State Archives of the House of Savoy.

Infantry (all square or slightly oblong shape)
All below with the white cross with coloured cantons:
1. Red (all cantons)
2. Grey (all cantons)
3. Sky Blue (all cantons)
4. Light Green (all cantons)
5. Red, in each canton a double cross of Lorraine
6. Cantons 1 and 4 black, 2 and 3 yellow
7. Cantons 1 and 4 violet, 2 and 3 white
8. Cantons horizontally striped red, white, black, brown.
9. Cantons with vertical ‘flames' (wavy triangles) of rose and blue
10. Cantons in lozenges of red and white
11. Cantons in 3 horizontal bands of red, blue, green; bands in a different order in each canton.
12. Cantons 1 and 4 in horizontal stripes of violet and orange, 2 and 4 in wavy vertical bars of same colour.
13. Cantons horizontally striped red, black, white with a black cross placed in the centre of the white cross.
14. Cantons 2 and 3 horizontally striped green and white; 1 white with green fleur de lys, 4 green with white fleur de lys.
15. Cantons in three horizontal stripes of ‘dead-leaf' brown, white and blue, in 2 (upper canton) a crowned ‘H' in red.
16. Canton 1 and 4 blue, 2 and 3 blue with yellow bars.
17. Cantons horizontally striped yellow, white, violet. On the cross the motto ‘IN TE DOMINE SPERABO, NON CONFUNDAR IN ETERNUM'

Flags without the cross:
18. 9 horizontal stripes black and green. Over all the double white cross of Lorraine
19. Horizontal stripes in white and black with the middle stripe red, carrying a small white cross with a white fleur de lys each side of it.
20. Same as 19 but with two red stripes (19+20 perhaps 2 companies of the same regiment).
21. Cross of St. Andrew. Red. Top canton near staff in yellow and black lozenges.

Cavalry Flags (long and narrow, slightly tapering with two swallowtails. Probably Gendarmes.)
22. Brown, white cross and a brown and white border.
23. Red, seme with gold flames and bearing the Virgin and Child. Blue and white border.
24. Blue and white in 4 horizontal stripes, white cross overall, blue and white border.
25. Black, seme with cross of Jerusalem and double ‘C's in gold. Near staff armoured arm holding a sword surrounded by a scroll of gold with the motto ‘ Fecit Potentiam in Braccio Suo'. At the centre an annunciation. Border red and yellow (This is the standard of Charles III, Duc de Lorraine and Bar).
26. White, seme with gold scrolls with the words ‘Virtus et ensis'. Near the staff in a blue sky is Perseus mounted on a white winged horse. In the centre, St. Barbara. Red and white border.
Cavalry Guidions. (Pointed, either with triangular or curved sides. Probably Light Cavalry)
27. Both standard and guidion brown with brown and white border. Seme with gold flames. In the centre St. Barbara with two gold scrolls with the device ‘VIRTUS EMICAT ARDENS'. Another guidion in white had the same borders, same charges and motto both repeated on 6 instead of 2 scrolls; a third was brown with a brown and white border, bearing a gold cross and a gold scroll with the same motto.
28. Red, with three horizontal white stripes. A green crescent facing the fly, is superimposed on the middle white stripe over lapping the neighbouring red stripes. (This guidion was broad and of curved or ogival shape and the staff was surmounted by a crescent, not the usual spear point. It has been suggested that it may be a Stradiot flag, but as the Stradiots were strongly anti-Turk, I prefer the alternative; that it belonged to some ‘Lance Moresques' who apparently formed part of Montmorency's army).
29. Red, seme with gold crosses and gold scrolls bearing the words ‘ Ut sors volet tamen stabo'. In the centre the Virgin holding the Infant Jesus. Border blue, white and red.

Cavalry Cornets. (Small square or slightly oblong)
30. White, an armoured arm emerging from a cloud holding aloft a drawn sword, point up, with the motto ‘Oextera Dei virtus mea est'. (Possibly the flag of the Constable de Montmorency).
31. Red with a gold cross dividing it into cantons. In each canton ‘C' and ‘T' intertwined, probably gold. Red and white border.
32. Black with a gold dragon. Beneath it's feet a cartouche in red bordered in gold with the motto ‘Je le tiendrai'. Gold border.
33. Half closest to staff red with 6 horizontal ‘ragged' bands of white. This divided from fly, which is black by a vertical pale in white. Fly also has six horizontal ‘ragged' bands of white.
34. Red and white horizontal flames charged with red and white stars. Over all a white band (a ‘bend' –a diagonal stripe).
35. Brown with a red cross and over all a white bed. Border red and white.

redmist112226 Feb 2013 7:52 p.m. PST

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

P.

jozzon27 Feb 2013 7:09 a.m. PST

Very Thanks Daniel, is a great information fountain. I only know the generic flags painted in the "Salón de las Batallas" Escorial Monastery in Madrid.

Bill N27 Feb 2013 7:52 a.m. PST

Curious who else besides me has copied this list. Thanks Daniel.

RNSulentic28 Feb 2013 11:04 a.m. PST

Oh, I just did.

daniel P12 Jun 2016 4:00 a.m. PST

did you read the book written by Christian Terrana named

Trophées des batailles de Saint Quentin et de Gravelines, published by the author in 2008. it contains 166 flags pr guidons

daniel P

Don Sebastian24 Nov 2016 6:27 a.m. PST

Dear Fellows, I'm really, really sorry for bringing this thread back from the Dead, but I have not be able to find any information about this book by Christian Terrana that Daniel mentioned. Does anyone knows where to buy it?

grafthomond02 Dec 2016 10:25 a.m. PST

Yes, I am in the same boat as well. I would really like to find this work.

Don Sebastian05 Dec 2016 6:00 a.m. PST

Any clues guys?

Don Sebastian09 Jan 2017 2:17 p.m. PST

Does anyone have any information about the book by Christian Terrana? I can't find it anywhere!

GurKhan17 Jan 2017 8:02 a.m. PST

Could the flags in the first two plates at auction be from the source of Daniel S's list?

Don Sebastian18 Jan 2017 5:11 a.m. PST

GurKhan, thank you for bringing Thais link to attention!

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