"French painting guides and unit compositions help" Topic

I have tried to scour the local libraries and the Internet for information on the French in the peninsular war and am only getting myself more confused. I am trying to put together forces for use with Black Powder rules. I will also be using this for my skirmish games using Sharp Practice. I am mostly trying to find information about uniform colors for legere and the composition of these units in the peninsular wars. What type of plumes did they have, did they have elite companies, etc.? I also interested in ligne units as well.

I am looking for some easy to decipher information that would really spell things out for a non-button counter neophyte like me. I am not in a position to go out and buy books or lease I would have. Any help you folks can provide me with would be appreciated.

Thanks

Try starting here:

link

Also here:

link

Also here:

napoleonguide.com

I do not have anything in front of me but easy answer goes:

Grenadiers wore red pom-poms/plumes and epaulets.
Voltigeurs wore yellow pom-poms/plumes and epaulets. I believe some regiments used some combinations of green over yellow or vice versa.

Line fusilier wore dark green for 1st company sky blue for 2nd company orange for 3rd company and violet for 4th company.

What Generalstoner says applies to the light infantry (leger) as well except that they called their grenadiers carabiniers and the fusiliers equivalent was chasseur. The voltigeurs were still voltigeurs. By the Peninsular war, the leger tended to fight in close order like the line but still saw them selves as elite with a superior esprit.

The links and comments are all helpful and much appreciated. Did each regiment have a company each of grenadiers and voltigiers or carabiniers and voltigiers in the case of the ligne? Did the voltigeurs of the ligne regiments have dark blue trousers? Did all the units of the legere regiments wear dark blue trousers? What headgear did the carabinieri wear? Not bearskins surely? Did all companies of the legere wear tall plumes on their shakos?

Do we see my confusion? I'm sure the more experienced of you out there my roll your eyes at my lack of knowledge but your assistance in clearing this up for me is appreciated.

Yes. French regiments were 6 companies strong. 4 line and 1 each of grenadiers and lights. Light regiments were organised the same way.

In general line regiment had white trousers and light had blue. In the field you would see whatever pants a men could put his hands on. You will see browns and gray as well. Also remember that the floors were not fast so they would change Colors very much from their base color.

Early on in the Napoleonic era grenadiers did indeed attempt to wear bearskins but in reality the were not taken on campaign. To save costs grenadiers switched to shakos with the red plumes cords and epaulets.

After the reorganization of circa 1808, French Line and Light regiments had several battalions (usually three, but later up to seven). Each battalion had four center companies (Termed Fusiliers in the Line, Chssseurs in the Lights), 1 light company (termed Voltigeurs in both – go figure), and one Grenadier company (termed Carabiniers in the Lights).

Ordinarily, the Ligne (Line) regiments wore white trousers (including their Voltigeur companies); the Legere (light regiments) almost always had dark blue. On campaign, the white trousers might be replaced with grey or, especially in the Peninsula, dark brown.

The Carabiniers did indeed wear bearskins at times in the earlier years of the Empire – not all, but some. Basically, any regiment that asked for them, got them. By 1809, bearskins for both the Line and Light grenadiers/carabiniers were becoming uncommon. The Carbinier version had no plate ion the front of it, and there were other minor variations form the Grenadier version.

Some of the Light regiments had their Voltigeurs in Busbys (colpacks), and rarely the Carabiniers might adopt them as well. Officers in the Legere regiments often wore them, regardless of the company they belonged to.

I go into a lot of detail on all this on my own blog, illustrated with my own troops

French Ligne Part 1
link

French Ligne Part 2
link

French Ligne Part 3
link

French Ligne , Part 4
link

Fremnch Legere, Part 1
link

French Legere, Part 2
link

Peter

Tying this question back to Sharp Practice, which calls for units of 8-12 guys, ostensibly at 1:1, did any of the Napoleonic armies have formal tactical organization at this level? Would they have used a mess group this way? If they did have, what was it called? That's one problem I have with skirmish or semi-skirmish games in this era (and closely related AWI and F&I)
Phil

so we all clear then ….Phew!

Where people are saying 'regiment' it should actually be 'battalion'. French regiments were typically 2-5 battalions.

Each battalion was 6 companies strong (pre-1808/1809 reorganization this had been 9 companies).

Cheers,

The Bandit

Reading letters, diarys etc from men who fought in the Napoleonic wars shows that there were lots of tasks that required small groups of men. They would usually be commanded by an NCO or maybe a junior officer, depending on the nature of the task.

Piquets, patrols, escorting wagons etc. Endless scope for Sharp Practice type games!

Exactly Cerdic. Many of the Sharp Practice games I play are encounters between foraging or scouting parties, with the occasional cutting party. I'm only now asking these questions because after several years of playing Sharp Practice I am only now beginning to try painting my figures. Black Powder has inspired me to try larger battles as well.

Playing with unpainted figures is what some would call sharp practice indeed!

Enjoy the painting, and the larger games.

@ Valmy92: Not so much a mess group, as a corporal's or sergeant's guard, depending on the task at hand?

Musketier: I am a crap painter with literally thousands of unused figures lying around. I am trading off some of the lead pile for painting and am trying my hand at painting some of the non-highlight figures myself. I'm block painting and then using a dip to complete the process. I am getting rid of everything not in 28mm or 10mm. Since Its usually just me or another guy who organize, set up, supply the figures and run the games at my local club nobody seems to complain that they aren't painted.

I'm hoping that by playing with more and more painted figures we can generate even more interest. That and let me better enjoy the table top scenery.

Here's our club: massillonareawargamers.com

You did not ask for Russians, but I think that their practise could not be much different than other nations. I am can do the platoon organzation of Russians 1810-1815 from memory, so ….

The basic tactical unit was the platoon (Russian "vzvod"), which was composed of 2 junior oficers, 2 senior non-commissioned officers, 6 corporals, 6 lance corporals and (typically in wartime) something like 20 to 24 files (each of 3 private soldiers). There would also be some "non-combattant" soldiers : 1 artificer in wood or metal, 1 medic, 1 or 2 commissaries with canteen cart, 2 or 3 officers' batmen, 1 supplies wagon or ammuniction caisson with a driver, and 0 or 1 ambulance wagon with driver. The senior platoon of the two platoons in each company ("rota") would be the "heavier" one : including higher ranking officers, the articer, the extra batman, the ambulance, and the "spare" file of rankers if the total was an odd number.

There were various reasons for the officers and non-commissioned officers to be detached or missing from the platoon. In this case all lower-ranking offcers and NCO's would fill-in at one level higher, and the resulting loss of corporals would be made good by using lance corporals (who otherwsie would serve in the ranks).

A half-platoon ("poluvzvod") would be half of the above. The senior half-platoon would again be the "heavier" one.

A section ("otdel') would be 4, 5 or 6 files (12-18 private soldiers), 1 corporal or lance corporal, and perhaps some of the other members of the platoon as the situation demanded. A half-platoon could have 2 or 3 sections.

The selection of creating 2 or 3 sections per half-platoon (and hence whether the sections were 4, 5 or 6 files) would left to the battalion commander's choice if more than one selection was numerically possible based on the number of private soldiers, corporals and lance coproals actually present in the battalion – as long as the battalion's sections, half-platoons and platoons were equalized (as far as possible). But usually, the numerical counts would dictate the sub-divisons of the platoons. The 6 "center" platoons and the 2 elite platoons of the battalion would be equalized separetely.

If the battalion could not form at least 4 sections of 4 files per platoon (i.e., 16 files per platoon), the battalion was a candidate for consolidation (the rankers sent into another battalion and the cadres sent back to the regimental depot to re-form the battalion). An absolutely full wartime strength platoon would 27 files, with 14 files in the senior half-platoon, and this half-platoon of 3 sections (2 sections each of 5 files and 1 section of 4 files). This was not too common.

A more typical battalion would have something like ….
-- platoons of 22 files, half-platoons of 11 ranks, each of 2 sections (1 section of 6 rfiless and 1 section of 5 files)
or
-- platoons of 24 files, half-platoons of 13 ranks, each of 2 sections (each section of 6 files)
or
-- platoons of 24 files, half-platoons of 13 ranks, each of 3 sections (each section of 4 files)
and so on.

The Russian cognate of the French "ordinaire" or mess was the "artel'" or commissary's canteen. This was an adminstrative sub-divion equal to 1/3 of an Army center company and 1/4 of a Army grenadier or Guard company (and in this case roughly the size of a half-platoon). But the "artel'" was not a tactical formation at all, and was composed more by grouping men of similar military and social rank than breaking down the company into equalized tactical sub-units. The Russian "artel'" also incorporated the economic function that the French granted to their cantinières.

Hello Private

For my black powder games I am doing the following with my french infantry

24 man units, each of 6 companies. 4 men to a company.

1 company is voltiguers (green/yellow plume), 1 grenadiers (red plumes), the other 4 fusiliers (pom poms in blue, pink, purple, orange) – you could also have green or brown pom poms

Hope this helps

F

you think thats confusing, try sorting out the uniforms and issue clothing for 1845-1870 french. its insane

Buy the Osprey!

Musketier,
Thanks for that. Would there likely be a standard size for a corporal's or sergeant's guard? Would these be consistently the same group of men, or rounded up fresh from the available manpower ad hoc on each occasion?
Phil