"American Civil War Ruleset for Black Powder v 1.0" Topic

Hello all:

I've written a ruleset for Black Powder: Please let me know what you think about it.

link

Thanks, Jorge

Thanks Jorge, downloaded with thanks.

Thanks also for the credit, but I should point out that the Rebel Yell special rule was actually my mate Provost's idea, I only added the 'Seen the elephant' suggestion, and of course the whole of our Gettysburg project team added to the playtesting to tweak it into something serviceable. Philip actually mentioned awarding the tiny plastic elephants as aides to memory, we thought he was kidding at the time, but he duly delivered and they really add to the game and the fun!

I note with interest that you confine rifled muskets to Sharpshooters, we wouldn't want to apply that for 1863, as I believe that by then the majority of units had some version or other of Rifled Muskets.

I'm a little surprised that you've left artillery stats as they are, this is the one area our group has worked on the most, with various thoughts about ranges and stamina. We all agree that canister range needs to be at least that of smoothbore muskets, for example, 18" instead of 6". We have raised the stamina to 2 for a battery, and allowed Artillery to pass a break test on 7+. We feel that, for very good reasons amongst their group, the BP authors have set out to limit the effectiveness of artillery to allow lots of 28mm troops on the table, but for big mega games thats probably not necessary.

Theres also the issue of the effectiveness of Confederate fuses, although a hasty reading of the recently published 'Guns of Gettysburg' suggested the Rebel gunners largely got around this, for massed targets, by selecting alternate ammo natures, but still laboured under a disadvantage in CB fires….Still up for discussion amongst our group!

Love your 'foot cavalry' idea though!

All in all a useful adaption for ACW, IMHO, and definately a good starting point for discussion, as interest in Gettysburg will undoubtedly wax with the coming 150th anniversary. Thanks again.

Sparker:

I added the rifled muskets at +4 points per unit for veterans and elite infantry for that reason. I was doing infantry first to see if it was balanced and then tackle artillery. I will add his name to the credits. Thanks for your input, keep 'em coming!!!!

Jorge

good support – thanks. I have just two starter armies from Kallistra (very nice) and am looking for a ruleset to adopt. I have owned BP, which I bought in a fickle moment and then regretably (now) sold in another fickle moment … must stop doing that :-)

normsmith: 'ho hum, easy come easy go' … plenty more BPs out there. Just don't sell it this time.

Now stop wasting time and go paint those figures.

I like the idea of adding some period flavor, but I'm concerned about your perpetuating the myth of the allegedly great Confederate leadership v. the (in your words) "inept" Union leadership. Even in the Eastern theater the leadership was about equal below the Army level. Just some food for thought.

BY

And in the western theater, there's Grant vs. Pillow, Floyd, AS Johnston, Pemberton and finally Bragg. The inept leadership shoe was on the other foot. On lower levels, throw in Polk, Mudwall Jackson and Earl van Dorn, among other stellar officers. And don't forget Hood, a great brigade commander who connived his way to army command.

Do recall that by the end of the war 60,000 hardened veterans from the Union western army were coming up the east coast from the south, a couple days march from the southern border of Virginia.

Jorge,

With all due respect, your rules have various misconceptions, inaccuracies and myths that I would like to point out. While it's great to have some fun rules, there needs to be some historical basis for them.

Confederate Forces/Union Forces – Your contention that the CSA had the greater number of brilliant officers compared to the Union is simply not true. While for sure Lee was far superior at army command to the likes of McClellan, Pope, Hooker and Burnside, there were plenty of incompetent commanders in the CSA.

In the Western theater army commanders like AS Johnson, Bragg, Beauregard, Pemberton and Van Dorn for the CSA were mediocre to poor. At corps, divisional and brigade level the Union had plenty of quality commanders, and many rose through the ranks with impressive performances such as Meade, Hancock, Reynolds, Sykes, Sheridan, Thomas, Gibbon, Wilson and others, not to mention Sherman and Grant.

During the Seven Days in the summer of 62 Stuart's cavalry literally did run around McClellan's army, but the Confederates suffered from poor commanders the likes of Huger, Holmes, Magruder, Whiting and others, and Lee won only one tactical engagement and was badly beaten at Malvern Hill.

Rebel Yell – I cannot believe that this is still finding its way into game rules. That confederate infantry yelped when they charged is true, but there is no evidence that this caused union troops to panic and run on a regular basis. Troops gave ground when they were out flanked, out shot or overwhelmed, but they sure as heck didn't skedaddle from being yelled at.

Foot Cavalry – While Jackson's Army of the Valley did out march three separate Union forces, this was at the strategic level. Tactically neither side was more proficient then the other at moving or deploying troops. AP Hills quick march to the fight at Antietam was impressive, as was the Union 1st Corps march up the Emmitsburg to relieve Buford's cavalry at Gettysburg. The Confederates have no edge here.

Green Infantry – your point that after the 1861 campaigns (of which there were few that year) that green infantry was reduced is partially correct, though both side (especially the Union) would still send untested units into battle. In fact during the Overland Campaign of 1864, the Army of the Potomac saw many untried Conscripted troops, Colored troops, and heavy artillery units converted to infantry in its ranks.

All infantry on both sides, regardless of their status could be armed with smoothbores or rifled muskets. Raw units would be more likely to arrive with the latest weapons, while veteran troops such as the Irish Brigade carried smoothbores all the way to Gettysburg.

Zouaves – By the second year of the war you would not have seen any Confederate infantry in a Zouave uniform. The Union would still have some continue, but your contention that these were "elite" units that hardly ever broke is simply not true. Even the best of the best units broke from a fire fight. The Iron brigade was repulsed at Antietam and was driven back at Gettysburg and they were better than any Zouaves in fancy uniforms.

As far as being trained as light infantry, ALL troops on both sides were trained as light infantry and were capable skirmishing and did so quite often. There were no distinctions like in the Napoleonic Wars.

Sharpshooters – In the confederate army, though some units were designated as sharpshooters, they were really no better than regular troops and usually employed no differently when deployed. Most confederate sharpshooters often fought as individuals taking up fixed elevated positions and served as snipers targeting officers (such as "They couldn't hit an elephant at this range" John Sedgwick!)

Artillery – Surprised you just have these right out of the book. This is the one area where there was a clear distinction between the CSA and USA. Union artillery was primarily 6 gun batteries, while the confederates where primarily 4 guns. Also, confederate artillery was markedly inferior due to poor shell fuses, mixed gun batteries, ammunition shortages and poorer logistical support. If any arm was elite in the union army it was there artillery. Union guns were the difference maker in battles such as Malvern Hill, Shiloh, Antietam, Murfreesboro, and of course Gettysburg.

If you really want to promote a Civil War variant to Black Powder, you would be better served to do some extensive research, or consult with someone well versed in the era rather than basing rules upon perceptions that are myths and not reality.

Good luck

Kim

I agree with Kim. You've put most of the myths into your ruleset. Rifled muskets were quite common. Springfield produced around 1.7 million 1861 and 1863 rifles.

Kim,

I feel the tone of your response to Jorge is a little over the top, although I agree with most of your points regarding the history of the conflict.

However, whilst I can't speak for Jorge, I can say that my impression of what he is trying to do is develop a fun supplement for Black Powder rules that will enable a large game to be played quickly, incorporating historical nods in the direction of authenticity, and should be taken in that spirit.

That is certainly what my group is trying to do with our Mega Game refight of Gettysburg. Consider our conundrum. We want 3 days of wargaming to represent the 3 days of the action, but how can we ask the Confederate team, with the benefit of hindsight, to attack when they are outnumbered, outgunned, and facing good defensive terrain? Purely historical rules will result in 3 days of stalemate!

Rebel Yell – I cannot believe that this is still finding its way into game rules. That confederate infantry yelped when they charged is true, but there is no evidence that this caused union troops to panic and run on a regular basis. Troops gave ground when they were out flanked, out shot or overwhelmed, but they sure as heck didn't skedaddle from being yelled at.

We are NOT suggesting for a moment that Union Soldiers ran away from being yelling at! Many of our group are Serving or have Served, and we would not perpetrate such a disgraceful myth on any Army. We are merely trying to come up with a fun and catchy title for a special rule that trys to reflect the particular elan and aggression of the ANV, perhaps a little exaggerated, to give the Confederate side a chance at a balanced game.

Hence our Rebel Yell rule.

Sparker,

My comments are not over the top, they are based on fact. I certainly can understand making rules fun. But there is a difference between rules that provide elements of surprise, adventure and maybe a bit of role play as opposed to something that's more akin to Warhammer 1.86 K and is based upon fiction not reality. If that's what you want, hey it's your game, but there are no "historical" nods to anything here.

Refighting Gettysburg in its entirety is something I have done at least a dozen times since the 70's. Have used various rules, but always historical orders of battle, arrival times and of course correct terrain. The confederates were victorious more than half the time. They are Not outnumbered on the first day, have superior numbers and better quality troops and can achieve if not a decisive victory on this day then at least a very good advantage (which they historically did). The second day is the critical day. Lee's troops came within a hair of capturing Cemetery Hill with only a couple of brigades. If you commit Rodes division fully (like he was supposed to have) and/or bring more of Johnsons troops into action, you can sweep the position and force the Union to withdraw. The attack on III Corps better serves as a diversion. Different play can lead to different actions, but the Rebs have a decent chance of winning this battle without using any gimmicks or play balance, and your contention that a stalemate is the likely result is from my own experiences not the case.

As for your idea that the "Rebel Yell" represents some special élan exclusive to the Army of Northern Virginia, this is without basis. The Confederates showed no more élan in the attack then did Union troops that assaulted Jackson on Stony Ridge, drove the confederates off South Mountain, attacked though the cornfield at Antietam, charged up the Marye's Heights in two separate battles, stormed Missionary Ridge and made murderous attacks (in column formation none the less) at Spotsylvania and Cold Harbor. The thesis of "Attack and Die" has been repudiated by many, including one of the original authors.

Again, it's your game, play it as you wish. But don't expect too many of us that truly know the history of the conflict to buy into it. If this is what you perceive, then "nothing is too good for the man that shot Liberty Valance".

I sincerely hope you enjoy your Mega Game though, have fun!
Kim

Hello all:
I am sorry that I have offended some of the people here on the forum. My intention was not to cause offense or controversy. What is important about what I wrote is the stats per se, not the descriptive 'flavor text' that accompanied it. I will of course, endeavor to emend said flavor text to what I know to be historically accurate, and I have said as much in my previous communications on the forum and in the rule set. this is only the first version of this ruleset.

As for the 'Rebel Yell' I should have made it more specific in the description, but this special rule is optional; if you look at the stats, there are two numbers, the first number is the cost of the unit without the special rule and the second one is with the special rule. I feel this caters to both sides of the issue for those who want it or for those don't.

I know there are issues with what I wrote and I am aware that it needs work and I will continue to do so, but I started it in the hopes of doing something useful for those who want to play BP in the ACW, and I believe I have done so in a respectful manner as befits a topic that is dear to many, including myself. I hope to work on the ruleset this week and have another version soon.

Again, I give my sincere apologies to the people who were offended by my posting of this ruleset.

Best Regards,
Jorge

Jorge,

I am NOT offended, you asked for comments of what we thought about it so I gave you a frank opinion. Don't take it personal, I want you and your friends to enjoy any game you want to play.

My points are that there are many game players whose sole source of knowledge about some historical periods comes from a set a game rules. All I want is to set the record straight for the uninitiated about the Civil War to at least know the facts and not have some precepts about The actual history based upon a set of game rules.

When I first started to make my own game rules for the Civil War I had lots of these same misconceptions about the conflict. I had a good friend who had a strong background in history that put me on the right track fortunately. Now some 35 years later, I have several hundred books on the subject, have visited dozens of battlefields, have researched regimental histories and in the process written no less than a half dozen different sets of rules over the years from my ongoing education about the "facts" of combat during the Civil War.

My hope is that those that really want a better understanding will do some detailed reading on the subject and not take it for granted that the myth is fact (hence my comment about Liberty Valance lol).

When Black Powder came out I actually did a few adaptions for ACW and posted them on the Warlord web sight. My own group found Black Powder to be to "light" for our taste, so I never pursued further detail. If you PM me I'll send you what I did, and would be glad to answer any questions.

Keep at it, put you may find that it can be addictive getting to the truth.

Best wishes

Kim

As for your idea that the "Rebel Yell" represents some special élan exclusive to the Army of Northern Virginia, this is without basis

Well we are all entitled to our opinions, but I daresay, mine that, on the eve of battle, without the benefit of hindsight, the Army of Northern Virginia possessed unique qualities of elan and aggression, that just might overcome its challenges in numbers and firepower, is one shared by many:

"Who can ever forget, that once looked upon it, that army of tattered uniforms and bright muskets, that body of incomparable infantry, the Army of Northern Virginia, which for four years carried the revolt on their bayonets, opposing a constant front to the mighty concentration of power brought against it"
Swinton.

Gen. Chas. A. Whittier of Massachusetts has said, "The Army of Northern Virginia will deservedly rank as the best army which has existed on this continent, suffering privations unknown to its opponent, The North sent no such army to the field."

More importantly, its Commander at the time thought so!
"There never were such men in an army before." Gen Lee

My reading leads me to believe that he felt so confident in his army's elan and aggressiveness that he felt, on the dawn of the second day, that it would suffice to overcome the numbers and firepower arraigned against it. It may well be true that events proved him to be mistaken, but that is not what matters when we design a scenario to recreate what was generally percieved as the day started…

And with our 'Seen the Elephant' rule, as the 3 days of battle wear on, the 'Rebel Yell' rule will have less and less impact, as the Federals gain in confidence….

As happened….

Rules don't have to be complex to reflect some aspects of authenticity!

Hello all:

I have finished and reworded the major portions of the infantry write up for the Black powder ruleset for the ACW. In preparation for the next version of the ruleset, which will include artillery, I have a couple of questions to ask and welcome any suggestions for implementation:

Would it be feasible to field a battery of cannons (four for Confederate six for Union) or as a single individual guns as in the main rules?

Could a rule be implemented to reflect the importance of capturing the flag?

Any other ideas for inclusion would be most welcome!!!!

Thnk you,

Jorge

Jorge,

Is your file on black powder ACW still available? Please send the link to adamphammer at hotmail dot com.

Thanks
Adam

Adam,

It is also available in ACW Gamer: The Ezine, Issue 1 if you are interested:

ACWGamer.com

Hey!
Thanks for inquiring. Yes its available via ACW Gamer, Issue 1. It was revised and expanded. Use the link above, you won't be disappointed!

Jorge

Gents,

I wrote a set of Civil War rules two years ago and am close to publishing and they have been extensively play tested. I have Rebel Yell for the CSA. Although your points are fully, in historical context and interpretation absolutely supportable, as all American soldiers tended to have pluck, an outnumbered and less industrialised power took on and held, almost defeating a superior industrialised power. Although this is probably more to do with the command and control as well as tactical skill of a single general and his corps commanders, it is an accepted practise to represent such elan in a medium to low complexity war game. I personally have no problem with such fluff and so to do many others. Its not everyone's cuppa tea and that is fine too, but for every fact there is an equally supported counter. For instance the Iron Brigade "considered elite" went toe to toe with confederate troops that had never been engaged in combat before and the Confederates drove the Iron Brigade back. Now of course one can argue that inexperienced troops are more likely to have greater elan, because they just do not know that they are meant to withdraw when attacked by the Iron Brigade. Such psychology is in and of itself fascinating, and probably why more Aussie army reserve troops get distinguished medals than regular Aussie army in the various wars to date. Veterans will know to keep their head down but conscripts are more likely to do something unpredictable and plucky…. And yet in almost all steps of rules conscripts are conscripts and veterans are far better than conscripts. Its funny the concept of myth and the war game is a longstanding conversation, but for another time :)

The so called "Rebel Yell" and any effect it had on the outcome of an engagement is a total myth. There is no historical evidence of units giving ground or fleeing and attributing it to any howling done by advancing confederate soldiers.

This is something that found its way into rules the same way Fluff is infused into Warhammer 40K.

Too many rules are written by people more interested in "Game" and minimal historical research into the "War".

Kim

Well KimRYoung that is an opinion based upon your own reading and historical understanding, others may feel differently. Besides we all play with little model soldiers, its hardly like the real thing! :)

its hardly like the real thing!

Yep. That's the number one problem with most game rules.

Kim