"Austrian shakos & helmets" Topic

I know that from 1806 onwards the Austrian infantry phased out their helmets and adopted shakos.

Most sources state that all of the Hungarian Regiments had switched to shakos by 1809, but the German Regiments were more mixed, some regiments still with helmets and some with shakos.

I have seen mention of a list of dates at which regiments made this switch. Has anyone seen this list, or know of particular regiments which definitely wore helmets or shakos respectively during the 1809 campaign.

Rod

This was discussed earlier on tmp but even Hollins did not have such a list.It was stated that probably regiments received the new shako as a whole. So no partly dressed battalions in shako and helmets.

I was thinking of painting up an Austrian Army next year. I am planning four line brigades, one Hungarian, one German in shakos and two German in helmets, but could still be flexible on which particular German regiments are portrayed with helmets or shakos.

Rod

there are a lot of illustrations for Aspern-Essling and Wagram showing German units in helmets..look at the facing colors and compare them to the regimental facings and viola..you have your units..I know IR #3 Hoch und Deutchmiester still was in helmets in 1809(forgive my spelling)

It's simply convenient to have all German regiments in helmet and Hungarian in shakos in 1809. Most figure manufactures, at least, imagine that all the Hungarian units had made the switch by 1809 – and that the Germans hadn't. If you can find evidence for particular regiments being otherwise in 1809, I'd love to know, then I can add some variety to the hordes!

It is my understanding that all Hungarian regiments had switched to shakos by 1809, but that most, but not all, German regiments were still in helmets.

Anyway, that is what I am planning to model, and it will create a bit of variety.

Rod

Rod, I believe the process was over a number of years and started when the shako was ordered in 1806 on the grounds of costs and suitability, with units still wearing the helmets beyond 1809. It is believed the Hungarian units were the first to receive the "new" shako although this may not be strictly true as some German units may have received the shako before 1809. The shako itself went through a number iterations up to 1815.

I do not believe anyone will say otherwise or argue you with you, if you want it thus: all Hungarian units with shako by 1809.

The Austrain army could do with a lot more research on it – Hollins, and co. have done a great job on providing some kind of foundation, alas we need more research carried out on the Austrian Army of the Napoleonic Wars, much like what has happened with the Prussian Army. (if the sources with the right sort of information are there to begin with….)

For my Austrain forces I'm having mixed shako and helmet units (thus I can field German shako units for 1813 onwards) saves me having to purchase two separate armies….

Marcus Maximus wrote:
For my Austrian forces I'm having mixed shako and helmet units (thus I can field German shako units for 1813 onwards) saves me having to purchase two separate armies….

Makes sense and I am proposing exactly the same.

Rod

This is what the Dave Hollins on the Austrian army had to say :

Dave Hollins 21 Nov 2007 3:49 a.m. PST
I frankly doubt if the records exist anymore. It is certainly true that the 1806 decree took some time to implement, so as a simple rule of thumb, it tends to be Germans in helmets and Hungarians in shakos for 1809. The Hungarians went first, so you would be wrong to have Hungarians in helmets with some Germans in shakos. However, no-one could dispute a few German units in shakos. Beyond that, officers always bought their own uniforms, so you can have officers in shakos, although officially the helmets were meant to be handed in en bloc. Varnhagen von Ense, who was a north German volunteer joined one of the Bohemian regts at Wagram and he says he bought the uniform of an officer killed at Aspern, which included a shako.