"The 'logic' behind modern camouflage" Topic

Interesting discussion on contemporary US camouflage patterns. It's more about looking 'cool' and marketing/recruiting than actual field effectiveness, but then you probably already knew that:

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Blimey! Can't believe the USMC are soon protective of their campaign pattern – that's insane!

As soon as I saw navy personnel in digital blue camo (the only purpose of which could be to make SURE that anybody who goes overboard is never seen again), it was obvious that camo was about looking cool rather than practical function.

Doug

Old news just rehashed.

VR
James Mattes

Then there is the Syrian "red lizard" camo

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Other armed forces have a more enlightened (and cost effective view. I shared a coffee with the leader of the UK team who developed the new British army camo scheme. Got together ateam of subject matter experts and artists, came up with a dozen prospective schemes, trialled a few and conducted focus group exercises and came up with something that is the envy of NATO, and all for a fraction of the cost quoted to "research" a digital scheme.

As much as the USAF 'Tiger stripes' doesn't make sense functionally speaking, I have to say I like it because it's such a cool Vietnam 'jungle' pattern.

Wasn't the old DPM created by an artist and a broad brush? Once you use computers and eschew artists you are in for trouble as a good artist has a very good idea of how colour and patterns impact on the human eye. After all it's essential for their job (unless you are Damian Hirst).

Well I know part of the reason each of the US branches have different camo patterns is so they can be ID'd properly by the media. Plus appropriate camo pattern with good fieldcraft works … Back when I was on active duty,'79-'90, generally everbody wore the same camo uniform – the BDU. I think a gray pattern or some colors that would help the sailor blend in with his ship might be a better idea. As already mentioned that digi-blue would make it even harder to see if you went overboard. And that blue pattern would not be very useful for ground deployment. Of course, I've got no problem with uniforms "looking cool" as long as it is functional …

Just go back to Khaki green or whatever worked in WWII.
Heck, bring back the neckties. After all, the military went corporate decades ago.

Neck ties are not functional for combat operations …

I was on the Israeli/Egyptian border in '97 and the Egyptian border guards were all in what looked like British DPM but in shades of blue. It did look cool but you could have seen them from space.

Better than the all black evil empire uniforms they used to wear guarding Cairos important buildings. 40+ degrees and the poor sods had to wear a black uniform, no wonder they rioted!

Actually, the current Navy digiflage is matched to the most common paints used aboard ship. Makes it harder to see where you found the unmarked wet paint.

@Agent Brown: I thought to purpose of border guards was to be seen?

L4, that's why they made clip-ons…now if you had said bowties, that I could get behind. Those never should have been invented for use other than in conjunction with a tuxedo.

They should just spend more time developing a cloaking device.

The ACU pattern is a crime against humanity, but the Navy and USMC camo patterns (besides Multicam of course) are actually reasonable. The Navy doesn't need camouflage in the traditional sense for personell on ships, the color scheme is more for hiding fluid spots (snicker) than deceiving the enemy. The worst offender is currently the Air Force with their semi-pixelated Tiger Stripe in ACU color, I wonder what they were thinking.

The sharpest and most practical uniform that I saw in Iraq was worn by the Ugandans. They wore Khaki.

Bizarre stuff! Thanks for sharing.

I've always wondered why naval staff on ships are issued camouflaged uniforms though. Makes no sense at all.

"Neck ties are not functional for combat operations …"

Properly designed, they could be used to throw slingstones in a pinch…. ;-)

Urban camouflage patterns should be adapted to the terrain it will be most used in:

I wonder, did anyone ask captured Iraqi and Afghan insurgents if they found it hard to spot US troops in ACU?

How effective was/is the USMC Desert Marpat?

We had this discussion with vehicle camo. With people it is more pronounced. I was a geeky USAF weather guy assigned to work with the 10th Mountain. This meant that my troops needed to be able to do the Army Soldiers handbook.
I actually took my guys out to do ftxs with miles gear. We taught individual camouflage with foliage and skin paint.
A properly camoed guy hidden in bushes is next to invisible if they stay still.
Yahoo news is a pretty controversial news source and this kind of snarky reporting is right in their wheelhouse.

the only purpose of which could be to make SURE that anybody who goes overboard is never seen again

MWHAHAHA!

And dang, Zephyr, that picture hurts to look at it. :D

Yahoo news is a pretty controversial news source and this kind of snarky reporting is right in their wheelhouse.

The Strategy Page has been covering the Army's camouflage debacle for a while. Their take on it has always been that the Army didn't want to use the Marine's stuff -- not that the patent was actually defended.

The Marine camo is supposed to be good, and the reason why the Army is doing Multicam now is that it was the stuff used by SOCOM (who has a higher budget per soldier).

I'm sure that anyone forced to wear dungarees would jump at the chance for some BDUs.

Well, if nothing else Rihanna looks pretty good in it.

I refuse to wear a bow tie unless it is a formal declaration of war …

After all, the military went corporate decades ago.

An excellent take on this, including camo and its civilian market, is given in William Gibson's latest novel "Zero History."

I think that works. I can't see the mounds on Rihanna's chest.

She's wearing a cloaking bra, silly!

I'm sure that anyone forced to wear dungarees would jump at the chance for some BDUs.

It's a toss up. BDUs are more comfortable, real (denim) dungarees are tougher. The Utility uniform (dungaree replacement) sucked. Made a Sailor look like a prisoner, and was uncomfortable as all hell.

I'm just irked that they got rid of the coveralls for shipboard uniform. You needed to buy a couple sizes too big, but that was the toughest uniform I've owned. Survived at least 5 NorPac patrols.

I think the whole idea jumped the shark when the Navy got on board.

Can someone explain WHY you need blue cammo on a 200 foot or larger ship?

Didn't think so.

The Woodland camo was based on the European Warsaw pack threat. Chocolate Chips were the first step in something for arid climates and the 2nd generation was a step up. Everything after that is just another example of some full Col getting his name assocated with a uniform change to make BG. Same with weapons systems.

As for bow ties yes I have two, one white and one blue that I can wear with my mess blues as formal and black tie affairs. Marine Corps birthdays are always an occassion.

VR
James Mattes

VR
James Mattes

I saw some photos of US marines in Afghanistan wearing pink BDUs. I don't know if it was because someone threw some red shorts into the laundry, but about half of them, including the captain, were seriously pink.

I wish I could find the pictures. It was from a magazine article.

The problem that strikes me with a lot of the more modern designs is that they lose their disruptive effect at any distance, instead blending into a fairly bright, light beige/grey blob, which seems to defeast the concept of breaking up the distinctive outline of a human form.

I'm still leaning towards the opinion that the digital patterns are simply designed to be more recogniseable to the newer recruits, who grew up on digital games systems and are used to seeing pixelated images, vis-a-vis anything not pixelated can be shot at :-)

Milites wrote:

a good artist has a very good idea of how colour and patterns impact on the human eye. After all it's essential for their job (unless you are Damian Hirst).

Made oi larrf.

All the best,

John.

@Vojvoda: Thought I just did explain the color choices of the navy cammies: the better to hide paint splatters, because no ship ever issues tyvek coveralls to the poor saps that got stuck chipping and painting!

I agree James, and yes I still have a bow tie for my Mess Blues … of course that's the only piece of that uniform that fits these days !