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"The New 5150 - what do you think?" Topic


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980 hits since 21 Jan 2013
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Grandviewroad Inactive Member21 Jan 2013 7:55 p.m. PST

Hey Ed – not you, we know what you think? Ah, just kidding, if you got something to say, go ahead… :)

Had the old ones, was intro'd at historical club. We struggled to understand how it worked. One thing that bothered us was the way that there was loads of reaction shooting until everyone was dead or ducked back. It was sort of like each squad had a private war with someone who shot at them.

Anyway, I wasn't the game host there, and it was new for him.

I note that the whole 5150 seems to be updated, and what fans and detractors think has changed.

I did download Chain Reaction 3 and Swordplay, and am looking forward to giving them a go.

Context: I've a bunch of Starship Trooper / Bugs stuff, some Urban War (hate the rules, love the figs), Gangs of Mega-City 1 (love the rules and figs, but interested in something that is more universal for the gang to play) and 40K stuff (love the figs, hate the rules, hate GW).

So wondering if 5150 might be worth returning to and to use ALL the above figs in some context or other.

Also skeptical but interested in the claim of "Five new unique races" in the rules.

Sigh. Let the flames begin…

Mako1121 Jan 2013 7:59 p.m. PST

I've read about that issue/concern, from others, re: 5150, but I can see an easy way around that, e.g. roll 1D3 (1D6, divided by 2). The result is the number of other groups that may react to the firing by the first group, e.g. 1, 2, or 3 figures, or groups get sucked into the action.

Then, repeat.

Obviously, you could tweak the above, as desired, e.g. 1D4, 1D5, 1D6, etc.

Personal logo MrHarold Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Jan 2013 8:18 p.m. PST

Are you interested in Star Army (military) or New Beginnings (Bladerunner RPGish)?

SBminisguy21 Jan 2013 8:36 p.m. PST

I've had fun running small adventures of a Muggie Zhu-Zhu courier whose job went bad.

Mako1121 Jan 2013 8:37 p.m. PST

Both, in my case, but not sure what the OP is after.

Personal logo Meiczyslaw Supporting Member of TMP21 Jan 2013 9:17 p.m. PST

I'm interested, too. I finally got around to trying out my copy of the old 5150, and there were some oddities that didn't sit well with my group. Hopefully, the new version addresses them.

Primarily, the problem of a player not getting to do anything if their Reps are too low. (Maybe not so bad in a larger game, with more groups and Leaders.)

As for the "shoot until everyone's dead or ducked back," we didn't have quite that problem. Sometimes, figures taking Received Fire tests would just stand there, which would end the cycle.

Mako1121 Jan 2013 11:21 p.m. PST

I've seen the Rep issue happen in FUBAR too.

The issue is the D6 mechanic.

Change it to a D12, and add 6 to all character troop Reps, and its a lot more playable, even for the poor troops. If there are points for the troops units, it'll mess with that, but you can adjust those too.

Shark Six Three Zero Inactive Member22 Jan 2013 7:31 a.m. PST

The old 5150 puts the active player at a disadvantage. When you are spotted during movement you will probably be taken out. I like the new rules where the active and inactive player has an almost equal chance of firing first.

I just may try the D12 system, it seems interesting.

Mako1122 Jan 2013 8:56 a.m. PST

At least the low rep figures get some chance of activating, and doing something with that.

Over time though, you'll notice the difference between them and the others.

If you think the D12 is too powerful for the low-rep forces, just use it to determine activation, but not success in combat. Switch back to D6's for that.

Grandviewroad Inactive Member22 Jan 2013 9:54 a.m. PST

I'm interested in both the New Hope 5150 (small teams and individuals) and the squad combat rules. I explain that in "context" above.

the issue revolves around time. If I can use a single system for Judge Dredd gang wars, Urban War teams, and Starship Trooper combat, it's a lot more likely for me to get people to try something out than if they need to learn three sets of rules for the three types of actions.

I also like the potential for "all players against the system" and encounter variables.

The description of the rules sounds great, and like they've moved on to a new level. I'm just trying to figure out if that's the case.

Personal logo Only Warlock Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 10:43 a.m. PST

I like 5150 SA a lot! VERY Different game from the original 5150.

Personal logo Meiczyslaw Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 11:21 a.m. PST

I like 5150 SA a lot! VERY Different game from the original 5150.

Explanation, please?

Personal logo Only Warlock Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 11:28 a.m. PST

It is designed around Squad Level actions rather than individual actions. Much faster moving with clearer explanations of play.

Still has the 2HWG flavor just plays a lot faster. I first played it at a FLGS in Austin with Ed moderating the game. We had about 40 or 50 Infantry and 8 or So Armored vehicles and it played out in two hours.

Rules for Air Support, Artillery, VTOL attacks.

picture

We had Grav Vehicles, Wheeled Vehicles, Walkers.

Personal logo Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 12:15 p.m. PST

In the past three years or so we've went to a new procedure to make the rules easier to learn.

Now almost all of the rules, including the 5150 duo, use the Stop format. Every few pages there's a small exercise and review of what you have just read. Here's a sample.

PDF link

Unfortunately it only works if actually used. Check out the free Chain Reaction rules that use these Stop boxes for an extended example of how they work.


Hope this has been of some help.

Personal logo Meiczyslaw Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 12:28 p.m. PST

In the past three years or so we've went to a new procedure to make the rules easier to learn.

I've made this mistake before, because I haven't looked at something I wrote ten years ago. The original 5150 used the same format, only you called it "the least you needed to know" then.

That said, I'll check out CR 3.0, as I still have CR 2.0 (and it's not that different from 5150 -- primarily the shooting table, really). Presumably, any differences between the two will likely show up between the versions of 5150.

Personal logo Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 12:58 p.m. PST

The original 5150 used the same format, only you called it "the least you needed to know" then.

Actually they are not the same.
The old 5150 only recapped rules.
The new stop boxes have exercises that ask the player's to do. Here's an example from New Beginnings

STOP!
Before going any farther take two figures and do the following:
Place them 6" from each other.
Give them different melee weapons.
Take a Charge into Melee Test.
Resolve a melee.
Do this a second time then add one figure to one side.
Take a Charge into Melee Test.
Resolve a multi-figure melee.
When you're done move on to the Breaking Off Melee Section.


Actually upon further review I see that Star Army doesn't use the detailed stop boxes but instead has many step by step illustrated examples which the original 5150 did not.

Personal logo Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2013 2:15 p.m. PST

Meiczyslaw – Didn't get a chance to finish as I had to make an appointment. Wanted to thank you for getting me to look back at Star Army and the original 5150. Star Army could use more detailed Stop boxes like in New Beginnings. I'll do them and post, as well as include it with the rules, to help those that already have the rules. Thanks again,
Ed

Norrins Supporting Member of TMP23 Jan 2013 5:57 a.m. PST

It's so flexible that I use 5150 as a single system for Judge Dredd, Dr Who, Star Wars and Star Trek.

Grandviewroad Inactive Member28 Jan 2013 8:25 a.m. PST

"It's so flexible that I use 5150 as a single system for Judge Dredd, Dr Who, Star Wars and Star Trek."

That's my type of context – several settings, want one set of rules.

Grandviewroad Inactive Member28 Jan 2013 8:35 a.m. PST

Ed,
I am glad there are new explanations.

I guess my main question is from the game designers point of view: does the new 5150 represent an improvement in the design of the game to make it play better according to the designers expectations and intent? If so, why?

Thanks!

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