"WWII Skirmish Rules - what's out there?" Topic

OK, some guys at the FLGS are playing Bolt Action. I've heard about NUTS! and remember that there's a couple others out there, can't remember the names.

When I say skirmish, I mean 10-20 figs a side or so. Squad to platoon actions, maybe on a great big game a whole company with multiple players on a game night. But generally just 10-20 figs or so.

Happy to hear anyone's thoughts and experiences, please be respectful.

Troops Weapons and Tactics by Too Fat Lardies is an option.

It works well, but I can't give any comparison to the other systems you've mentioned as I havn't played them.

Take a look at Men Under Fire by Test of Battle Games. It's a little different take on low level actions.

NUTS! Specifically made for small scale skirmish actions – you can play with as few or as many figures as you want but works best with a squad to a platoon (10 to 35 figures).

I think ideally, the set of rules should include weapon differentiations where it mattered, some balanced lists (after all, skirmishing the unusual situations = having no lists at all) to get started and ways to incorporate unusual composition or even movie / story lines as a force but still be playable.

And each nationality should have a little something that reflects their character, tactics, organisation, etc. It should not be totally generic for every side.

Just a couple of thoughts.

TWT and MUF need some explanation, please.

Lots of posts on this subject, so you might check the message archives as well, for tons of info on the subject.

Disposable Heroes comes to mind.

If this is helpful, here is a list of the WW2 wargame rules I'm aware of:

• 1944 (WW2)
  
• Abteilung
  
• Abteilung (RFCM)
  
• Angriff
  
• Angriff Revised & Expanded
  
• Arc of Fire
  
• At the Sharp End
  
• Axis & Allies
  
• Battle Captain
  
• Battlefield Evolution: World At War
  
• Battlefront
  
• Battleground
  
• Battlegroup Kursk
  
• Battlegroup Panzer Grenadier
  
• Battlegroup Panzer Grenadier 2nd ed.
  
• Beer and Pretzel Skirmish (B.A.P.S.)
  
• Blitzkrieg Commander
  
• Blitzkrieg Commander 2nd. Ed.
  
• Bolt Action
  
• Broadsword
  
• Bronze Star
  
• Clash of Armor
  
• Combat Action Command
  
• Combat Captain
  
• Combat Command
  
• Combined Arms
  
• Command Decision (3rd)
  
• Command Decision: Test of Battle
  
• Command Decision: Test of Battle Revised Ed.
  
• Company Commander
  
• Complete World War Two, The
  
• Crossfire
  
• Disposable Heroes
  
• Eagles, Crowns & Oak Leaves
  
• Face of Battle
  
• Fire Brigade
  
• Fire! Ogon! Feuer!
  
• Fireball Forward
  
• Firefly
  
• First Watch
  
• Flames of War
  
• Frontline Command: World War II
  
• G. I. Commander
  
• G. I. Commander
  
• Great Battles of WWII: Drop Zone
  
• Great Crusade, The
  
• Hell and Fateful Decisions
  
• I Ain't BeenShot Mum
  
• Impact
  
• Kampfgruppe
  
• Kampfgruppe Commander
  
• Kampfgruppe World War II Miniature Rules
  
• Korps Commander
  
• Maxim to Minimi
  
• Megablitz
  
• Mein Panzer
  
• Men Under Fire
  
• Micro Squad: The 1;1 WWII Game
  
• MicroArmor: The Game
  
• Miniatures In Action Vol. II
  
• Nuts!
  
• Nuts! 2nd Edition
  
• Operation Brevity
  
• Operation Squad
  
• Operation Warboard
  
• Operation World War II
  
• Panzer Korps
  
• Panzer Lehr: Simple Rules for WWII Armor Miniatures 1.0
  
• Panzer Marsch
  
• Panzer Tactics
  
• Panzer War
  
• Panzer Warfare
  
• Panzertruppe
  
• Patrol WWII: World War II Squad Combat
  
• Peter Helm
  
• Piquet: Point of Attack
  
• Piquet: The Blitzkrieg
  
• Poor Bloody Infantry
  
• Rapid Fire
  
• Rate of Fire
  
• Rattenkrieg
  
• Rules of Engagement
  
• Schwere Kompanie
  
• Schwerepunkt: Divisional Level WW2
  
• Simple Low-Tech Microarmour Rules
  
• Soldat
  
• Spearhead
  
• Special Ops
  
• Storm of Steel
  
• Storming the Reich
  
• Tac: WWII Miniature Rules for Brigade Level
  
• Tactical Commander
  
• Tally Ho!
  
• Tank Charts
  
• Tank War
  
• Tiger
  
• Tigers & Stalins
  
• Tracks
  
• Tractics
  
• Treads & Turrets
  
• Troops, Weapons & Tactics
  
• Under Fire
  
• Victory Decision: World War II
  
• War Games Rules Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 (June 1973)
  
• Wargames Manual
  
• WFG's Frontline!
  
• Where Panzers Dare
  
• World War 2 Wargaming (Airfix #15)
  
• WRG 1925-1950
  

You forgot Normandy Firefight.

You missed us- Maneouver Group More – more army lists comming soon.

Operation Squad

A lot of the games mentioned in this thread are not ideally suited to the 10 – 20 figure range requested by the OP.

Yes you might be able to use them for such a small game but that is not their sweet spot.

i like Bolt action

Battleground has a high level of detail perfect for small actions as you suggest. I love these rules! I haven't had the need to try anything else since I bought them over 10 years ago.

Disposable Heroes and Nuts! come to mind.

Iron Ivan Point Blank uses the Disposable Heroes system but you activate one man at a time instead of a squad.

Extra Crispy – we're looking for skirmish rules.

I think that "Disposable Heroes" by Angry Ivan was one that I had heard about but couldn't remember. What are those like?

I play DH and CF7B. The infantry rules are good. They are really a half squad level set with a platoon each side.
Activation – Roll to see who wins then alternate moving, firing etc. per half squad, gun, or mg.
Ranges are good, with only half of your guys shooting at any one time as the others are ducking, loading etc.
Squads, duck, are pinned or run away.

Don't go out in the open, especially in front of an MG42.
Photos of a DH game.
link

Iron Ivan has a new set of rules for individual figures squad level, called Point Blank. I've just ordered a set.
ironivangames.com

This is a weekly thread just search. :)

Tried both DH and Bolt Action. DH has more to them but I preferred simplicity of BA, some complain it is too simple but its down to personal preference.

One other recommendation to add for WW2 skirmish gaming : Too Fat Lardies 'Platoon Forward'.

It's not a rules system as such, although it is designed to work best with TW&T, but rather a solo scenario generator and minimal overhead campaign system.

Give it a look.

I think that "Disposable Heroes" by Angry Ivan was one that I had heard about but couldn't remember. What are those like?

YouTube link

I think DH is a great game (my personal favorite in WWII skirmish), but it won't shine with 10-20 figures per side. that would be about 2-3 units per side. You'd want a game that has individual soldiers as actionable.

The three systems that I've played are:

Battleground WWII by Easy Eight
super detailed with tons of cool chrome, but the without committed diligent rules readers it can bog down very quickly. Trying to throw a grenade into a room led to all sorts of crazy micro measuring that made me cry uncle.I am impressed by the system, but don't have the energy to learn/teach it.

Point Blank by Iron Ivan: easy system to pick up, based of the tremendously enjoyable Disposable Heroes rules. We tried it a couple of times at the club and found that the system seemed a bit off. Killing people isn't all that easy, especially when they are in situations that should be fatal.

NUTS by Two Hour Wargames: I've played a couple of WWII games of NUTS & 1/2 dozen zombie Scenarios that use similar rules and while I am not a big fan of the NUTS system I think it delivers a good balance between ease of play, realism, and fun, So I would recommend it for a small game. If you plan to go bigger, I would heartily recommend DH.

From what I've seen from Bolt Action it lends itself to the power gamer ideal that I gladly left behind with warhammer 40K. Building lists to take advantage of rules loopholes and ahistoric squad builds make me not want to play. But I am glad that WW2 skirmish level gaming is getting some good publicity AND Warlord & Osprey are doing a really nice job of marketing this AND there are some amazing figures being released AND I enjoy listening to DANo & Judson on Bolt Action Radio.

Once the models are out there and people like the genre maybe I can convert them to step over to the DH side to try the rules I really like. . .

bottom line = more gaming is better for gamers so find something you like & go!

You could play Bolt Action though with historic OOBs rather than a points list…..

Try these:

link

Rules of engagement by Great Escape Games, cover your needs, being Squad – Platoon lvl, has weapon differentiations, well done army lists, and Nationalities (and some troop types) get various "traits"

link

plus loads of free stuff on their site, and the campaign system(a separate book) is great too

We play a home spun set of rules called The Corporal's War. Ground scale is 1" equals 2 yds. So a 6'x8' table is 144 yds x 192 yds. Game is not a "one side has to kill the entire other side" type. Instead you have to break their morale & run them off. Works well. Armor is very vunerable at these close distances, (man held anti-tank weapons will ruin a tankers day at yds or less).

I'd have no problem with little fire teams of 3-5 guys being activated – I don't need individual actions with 10-20 figs a side.

Basically, I like the idea of WWII skirmish as a break from some big Flames of War game. But I don't want a gamey game, I want a little more realism in it b/c it's more noticeable in skirmish what type of weapons you have, etc.

So no generic skirmish, not list driven altho points are nice to balance things, but not a list-driven game.