"Kingdom Death : Monster, Why?" Topic

I feel like I am late to the game having paid scant attention to the miniatures being released over the last few months and now the KS is done but I wanted to chime in on it.

I pored over it and found I like everything about it but the baddies.

I like the look of combat, of the premise, the modeling potential, the looting bodies, and growing villages.

Why do the bosses have to look like rejects from the Human Centipede? I loved the look of the lion, and the core humans themselves.

Everything says I would have a blast with this but the Fetish grotesqueness of the monsters just makes it a no-go for me.

I wouldn't mind all kinds of demons and baddies for them to fight. I would just feel creepy displaying these in my house and even more creepy hiding these in the box like a teens hidden box of porno mags.

I will watch to see if more mundane beasties are released or if it will keep going into tit beasts and fetish monsters. I hope for the first but expect the latter?

I did keep thinking as I read through this – a reimage with cavemen fighting, mammoths, sabertoothed tigers, and dinos where your tribe grows would be soo much better!

But what do I know, I didn't just make 2 million.
DZT

I pretty much agree with you DZT. I just did not get it and thus stayed far away from it. I relaly don't get teh $2 USD million that was pledged, but to each their own.

Jeff

Elmo was a very early backer because of the co-op aspect.

I think the game got to 2 million as existing backers upped their pledge to get the optional extras as these were marketed rather heavily.

I did not increase my pledge just for options, I'll take the original deal and any upgrades that were unlocked.

I wish I had been able to pledge, wasn't in the budget.

But seriously? There were maybe two or three questionable figures. The rest were just amazingly beautiful sculpts: the Flower Knight, Lion God, Dung Beetle, Man Hunter, Lion, Phoenix, Antelope, Butcher, Kingsmen, Kings Hand, Watcher…

the Phoenix is one of the most beautiful models I've ever seen.

I can guarantee you some cavemen and tigers would not have made 2 million bucks with an average pledge of $378. USD

You're absolutely right, Judge. Perversion sells far better than Paleontology.

:P

That's funny, I liked the monsters way more than the humans- it's almost as if different people have different opinions!

What's fetishy about the monsters?- if anything it's the humans that I'd be embarassed to put on display! The Flower Knight is gorgeous, as are the various creatures from the game box, and they don't have boobs.

Leigh

I pledged early, but as more and more stuff was added, the monsters just became too odd even for me. The other thing that made me decide to cancel was the fact that the plastic the figures are made from is the same that plumbing pipe is made from. Pain to put them together.

I also liked the monster design for the most part. I didn"t mind the that most of the stretch goals cost extra, the standard box itself was a pretty good deal and I understand that they can only fit as much in the box and still make a profit and get the game out in time. However I didnt get any of the expansions although i was tempted..I just don't feel comfortable spending that much on a game that i havent played or at least heard some trusted reviews on.

You're absolutely right, Judge. Perversion sells far better than Paleontology.

One person's perversion is another person's art. And the Kingdom Death line (and now the Kickstarter) has clearly shown there is a market for their high-quality sculpts and yes, the subject matter. Putting it down just because it's not your thing isn't really constructive.

Given the artwork and figure sculpts, for the female characters, it looks like there must be a few resource cards for silicone available.

I was hesitant to talk about this as for some reason it really hits the "argue" cord for people as it has shown on a number of boards. I am glad to see it didn't take that turn here.

There are a few points I wanted to make about my stance on it.

First off, I think all the miniatures are very well done, highly detailed, and creative. I have no problems with anyone else liking the assorted monsters nor do I have any problem with all the optional add on content as I would not have to get those bits if I don't like them.

Secondly, the core box contents seem fine to me and I don't have a problem with them.
I guess my fear is more that the selling bits (the T&A and fetish stuff)seem to be more likely the direction any future expansions will be rather than things like the lion or man hunter.

The problem I see with that is you can only have so many tit monsters before you have to go bigger to create that same level of awe from the last one. Give it 5-6 expansions post KS and I wonder how vulgar they will have to get to still draw in and wow people.

Given that the shock value will always draw more attention I look forward to the Scat Beast as a future monster over say, Alligators or different haunts and knights.

In a game that will expand based on adding new monsters – a growth that is suppose to keep long term interest in the game. It seems most probable that the parts I prefer will be much less likely to be added on and will ultimately limit what I feel comfortable buying in the future.

I do look forward to seeing how people actually feel about the game play before dropping that kind of money for it. for those that have bought it I look forward to your blog posts to help me decide if it is worth it!

DZT

I passed on this. Just seemed 'meh'.

"… can only have so many tit monsters …"

They usually travel in pairs. ;-)

Dropzonetoe- it seems to me that it's a bit judgemental to vocally dislike a product because of how you think they might expand at some point in the future…

I think you might be getting hung up on the boob-thing (which might be the name of one of their monsters)- none of the monsters in the starter box nor any of the (numerous) expansion monsters have the fetish thing going on, unless you are into some really strange stuff. If KD wants to carry on with the 'pin-ups', then they can but that just seems to be a line for people who want to paint as opposed to those who want to play the game. I'm only after the game, so I just funded for that side of things.

Leigh

I'd just like to add that I understand where you are coming from though- I admire the female form, but many of the figures from the company are exaggerated caricatures. Some of the creatures seem to have been sculpted by someone with a similar fixation too! However, they have seemed to keep this 'arty' side separate from the gaming side so far, so give them credit for that.

Leigh

"You're absolutely right, Judge. Perversion sells far better than Paleontology.

One person's perversion is another person's art. And the Kingdom Death line (and now the Kickstarter) has clearly shown there is a market for their high-quality sculpts and yes, the subject matter. Putting it down just because it's not your thing isn't really constructive."

Sculpts and such that are exploitative or debase / dehumanize are not "art", they are porn. Porn is inherintly degrading to the subject matter.

So if you see a miniature and it would bother you to put your mother / wife / sister / daughter whoever's face upon it and sell it, good chance it's porn, not art.

Worth trying some time. Take that succulent succubus sculpt, block out the face and put the face upon it of someone you genuinely care about – dear old grannie whoever – and if it doesn't shock and appal you, it is probably OK. If that does bother you, then don't buy it, it's trash.

It's not really that complicated when you think about it.

To those who took offense at me calling it perversion:

It was a light hearted joke. I put a smiley after it and everything. But hey, enjoy the argument over lead porn to follow. :D

Manflesh, Perhaps I misunderstand what are the expansion monsters are but I have included a number of pictures in response to

none of the monsters in the starter box nor any of the (numerous) expansion monsters have the fetish thing going on,

.

If these are not monsters for use in the game (core or expansion)please correct my mistake and I will retract my claims.

I will explain my issues with the following.

This has a phallic head, multiple breasts, a testicular body, and lets not forget the naked slave women that apparently are violated by the penis tail to keep them pregnant.

Multiple Phallic heads, A penis weapon?

S&M leg bondage to the bookholding slave, Children? for footrests, bound arms for the chairs. This is quite influenced by themes of bondage, subjugation, power, and control

Either a lion headed or penis tail, One alludes to previous rape themes and the other implies sexual relations with animals, either in a Furry or bestiality manner. As I could not see that properly I will gladly concede to what ever one is the wrong assumption. Once again the pregnancy fetish is a key feature of the miniature.

Most of the above apply to this.

Once again the childbirth aspect is used so rape would again be the assumed reason for the child. This one has a exposed penis again.

Lastly I included this one to prove a point.

I quite like it and would get it with no problems. It is very artistic and it implies – weakness, fear, distress, the delicacy of women(also implied by the weight of the lantern), the nudity helps convey those feelings. It does it in a natural way that doesn't need to fall back on many of the above issues for the monsters.

I want to make this clear – I don't have a problem with the nudity – I'd paint naked ancient warrior or bare breasted natives and have no problem displaying them. The multiple showing of sex slaves, implied rape, bondage, bestiality, abuse to women and children are all vulgar to me.

I also don't have a problem with anyone else buying them if they like them. I would not but accept other will enjoy them for what they are.

As I posted prior I am glad they chose these items to not be part of the core game and optional.

Hey Dropzone- all of those pics bar the scribe one have had no indication that they will be part of the rules, whether core or expansion. They are, as yet at least, just extras for people to buy for purposes of modelling and painting. If they were part of the core system, I would not likely have been interested, so you'll propbably find that were are in agreement on the subject matter! It was my assumption that all of the KD stuff was of the ilk that you have posted above that put me off even checking out the game until someone advised me to do so.

The Scribe one is part of an expansion that I have not pre-ordered- although I have to admit that I hadn't seen his footrests when I made the decision, so it's not a question of taste, just that I liked the others and funds are limited.

When I refer to the monsters from the game side, I will stick to my guns on what I said before. I'm not really that clued up on adding photos here, but can list them if you want to see what I was going on about.

The core box set comes with 7 monsters, which look to be a mix of animal-types (Lions, Stags-things and the big Phoenix whch is lovely) and human-sized baddies in full plate, all of whom are entirely covered. I really like the armour, but it might be a bit fancy for some.

The expansions:

The Flower Knight (really really nice)

Manhunter (looks like a witch-hunter)

The Lion Knight (his court could be considered a bit submissive, but it seems from the background that they are helpers rather than victims as such)

The Dragon King

Gorm (really cool idea IMO)

Dung Beetle Knight (unsure as to the inspiration, but again he's a bloke in stylised armour. No boobs.)

Spidicules (I haven't had a good look at these yet, I know that they have people trapped around them but am not certain as to any references to bondage et al. Unlikely given that they seem to be giant carnivorous animals)

Sunstalker (that's a larger version of your penultimate photo. This one only has concept art as yet so I have no idea as to what the figure will be like)

Lion God (a bigger version of the Lion in the game box)

The Lantern Festival (including the Scribe as mentioned before, as well as a few other creatues)

They also added the Lonely tree and the Slender Man towards the end.

Like I said in my earlier post, if they can keep the themes separate then I'm happy. I expect that, bondage and slavery refs aside, many people won't like it because the models don't do anything for them. That's fine. I also like the Smog range from Smart Max, so I'm always up for something a little wacky.

I think you'll really find that we are in agreement on this, just coming from different directions. It's nice to actually have a discussion on the internet without it going acrimonious.

Leigh