"Zero Dark Thirty..." Topic

…is outstanding. Great directing. Amazing job at making the search and final operation suspenseful but not "Hollywood dramatic", even though we know how it turns out. Highly recommended.

Wargaming tie-in: some really nice scale models of the compound in the movie. I'd love to game on them. DEFINITELY want to get some of those Khurasan DEVGRU minis now.

I have not seen it, not sure I wanted to when it was announced. I have heard this morning about the depection of the troops assaulting through the compound and shooting downed threats. HELLO that is SOP since I was a private in the Infantry. You sweep over the objective and engage all combatants. It is only after the inital assault during the consoidation phase that wounded are addressed. As for CQB in a hostage barracade senario it is slightly different. CQB in a semi to nonpermissive enviroment non combatants are not engaged but are secured before advancing further if time allows. Often support troops (Medics, CCT and EOD) are left to secure potential hostiles while the assault continues.

The reviews I have seen do address some areas of concern such as the advanced interogation techniques used to obtain some of the actionable intelligence.

I have also heard that it is very suspensefull even though we all know the outcome.

I might change my mind and see it when it comes out on DVD.

VR
James Mattes

Regarding the interrogation, I understand the handwringing that some folks are doing, but I thought the portrayal was realistic and relatively unbiased. It certainly wasn't depicted as pleasant, positive, or of no consequence.

It wasn't sensationalized, coming across as more "docu-drama" at times.

Didn't have the CH-46 back-up at the end, though, which seemed odd. Then again, apparently that had to rewrite the whole end of the film right before shooting. When the film got the green light, Bin Laden was still alive.

'advanced interrogation techniques' is that the new term for torture?

> 'advanced interrogation techniques' is that the new term for torture?

That really depends on who you ask.

I have watched it this afternoon, and I liked it a lot. It's a great movie. It doesn't make concessions to spectacularity. Yeah, I know that some could find disgusting the scenes of torture. I know I did. But Bigelow is not judging, just showing. Its the viewer who must decide by himself what is his opinion on the matter.

I enjoyed it too.

"I have heard this morning about the depiction of the troops assaulting through the compound and shooting downed threats"

Yeah, I could see some people in the movie theater cringing during those moments. Not sure they understood the reasoning for it.

I seem to recall torture scenes in … think it was a Lethal Weapon film, involving water dunks and electrical prods.

Think I will wait until it hits video, unless there is any scene that really needs to be seen on the bigscreen?

I enjoyed it too.

"I have heard this morning about the depiction of the troops assaulting through the compound and shooting downed threats"

Yeah, I could see some people in the movie theater cringing during those moments. Not sure they understood the reasoning eith it.

The main complaint about the water-boarding scenes in the movie (which I haven't seen yet – so I'm only talking about the complaints I've read, which may not be accurate) is that some claim the movie makes it seem that information gained in that way led directly to Bin Laden's location. This is incorrect according to most sources, who say that the breakthrough came through a combination of good humint, detective work, and luck.

I'm just finishing Bowden's book on Bin Laden's death and it definitely depicts the information that led to the discovery of "The Pacer" as coming from well beyond the confines of Gitmo.

BTW – Bowden's book (THE FINISH) is an informative read that lives up to his standard of being as objective as humanly possible. I think some of his political biases show in the book, but not overwhelmingly so – and my feeling that they do may actually be MY political bias showing. ;) I highly recommend the book, especially the digital version that contains a more accurate version of the actual take-down based "Gary Owen's" account.

I'll watch the movie, but probably not until its on Blu-Ray. Why? Because I'm cheap. ;)

Shawn.

Well, actually it is the opposite, Shawn. In the movie, the waterboarding fails to get information from the detainee. It's later, when the CIA manipulates the guy into believing that he had already given information that he identifies an UBL's courier. Then it passes five years and a lot of false leads, until they get an identification on the actual name of the courier, but not from interrogation but from an analyst that was collating data the CIA had received immediately after 9/11, but that had passed unnoticed because an overload of information. From there it follows a normal surveillance-intel gathering operation, until they get the potential location on UBL.

So, the detainee's torture is not presented as particularly useful. It is analysis, surveillance and regular interrogation techniques what, according the movie, proportionated the intel needed to get Bin Laden.

And that's why I don't take the word of critics regarding books or movies! Good to hear clarification from someone who has actually seen the film – thanks, Basileus!

It sounds like the movie's depiction is in keeping with what I've read. Some information on "The Kuwaiti" was apparently gleaned from coercive interviews, but the majority of the puzzle pieces fell into place through painstaking intelligence gathering and analysis.

I finished Bowden's book on the subject this evening and I definitely recommend it. He may lionize the president a bit, but not to an unacceptable degree. I think it's pretty good reporting, for the most part.

Shawn.

I agree with Basilius' take on the film. I'll also add that the president is almost totally absent apart from, interestingly, a clip from an interview where he's talking about stopping torture, etc and rebuilding America's image.

The breakdown re: waterboarding that the movie presents is pretty much in line with what the intell community has determined. The old methods of slow manipulative interogation yields much more intell than torture. That, and the careful sifting through the intell to find those diamonds. Always been that way, always will be…

I read Owen's book over a couple of days and am keen to see it on the big screen. Seal Team Six movie was disappointing.

Problem is its released in Aust on Jan 31!

I saw "Codename: Geronimo" the other night, it was so-so.
My wife then asked why I had not seen Zero Dark Thirty.

I suspect I shall now go and see it.