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"What a LAME theme for a convention!" Topic


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vojvoda Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 11:15 a.m. PST

Just saw this on the Cold Wars page:

coldwars.org
WOMEN WARRIORS: 3,000 YEARS OF COURAGE AND HEROISM!

Now I admit I took Osprey to task over the Warrior Woman of Nothern Europe or something like that, but this is just sooooooo PC. Broads in Battle is much more theatric.

VR
James Mattes

Caesar04 Jan 2013 11:24 a.m. PST

Are we allowing politics on TMP, now?

Personal logo Landorl Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 11:28 a.m. PST

Grab a Coke and watch as the fireworks explode!

vojvoda Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 11:32 a.m. PST

PC is not really politics!


Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and, as purported by the term, doing so to an excessive extent. In current usage, the term is primarily pejorative, while the term politically incorrect has been used as an implicitly positive self-description. Examples of the latter include the conservative The Politically Incorrect Guide published by Regnery Publishing and the television talk show Politically Incorrect. In these cases, the term politically incorrect connotes language, ideas, and behavior unconstrained by a perceived orthodoxy or by concerns about offending or expressing bias regarding various groups of people.

VR
James Mattes

Angel Barracks04 Jan 2013 11:36 a.m. PST

Why is looking at the role women played in war

LAME
?

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 11:44 a.m. PST

I'm not sure why this theme is lame? It may be a bit PC, but it's certainly relevant with lots of battles that can be played throughout history. Boudicca is pictured, but she's not the only one from the Arab Israeli Wars to World War Two to Joan of Arc to many battles in between.

I'd love a CY6 game based on the Night Witches of World War Two.

On the flip side, I'm going to retain my sexist credentials by saying, 'Shouldn't this be cross-posted to More Boobies?'

Another Account Deleted Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 11:49 a.m. PST

Lame? Maybe…

Stupid? Yes!!!!

Spreewaldgurken Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 11:53 a.m. PST

I've never really understood the purpose of the convention "theme."

But it would stand to reason that a theme could be an opportunity for people to sell more games and figures that touch upon that theme… assisted by people running games on that theme.

Given that the hobby and its products are 99.9% focused upon male soldiers, I suspect that whoever runs that G.I. Jane Demo is not going to have much trouble winning the "Best Theme Game" award.

pancerni204 Jan 2013 11:55 a.m. PST

Yea, it's one of the dumber theme's…you gotta wonder how the braintrust comes up with this stuff, particularly in a year with Napoleonic and War of 1812 anniversaries out the wazoo…of course this is more of the same from the people who annointed as the Fall IN guest of honor the discredited former President who almost single handily bankrupted the organization…just say'in…sometimes you can't make this stuff up.

Shark Six Three Zero Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 12:02 p.m. PST

Darn, i just realized the only women figures I own are civilians, except for a few armed females for my zombie/apoc game. I wonder if that would qualify.

CraigH04 Jan 2013 12:16 p.m. PST

Hmmmmm, I'll be looking forward to the costumes at this one….oh, wait…

skinkmasterreturns04 Jan 2013 12:45 p.m. PST

Chainmail bikinis?

nickinsomerset04 Jan 2013 12:51 p.m. PST

Not surprised, in most of the recent war/Sci Fi/Action films the lead , veteran, hardest soldier/hero (ine) is usually a female and the geeky nerd a man!

Personal logo Dale Hurtt Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 12:58 p.m. PST

I am ready with my figures!

picture

link

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 1:58 p.m. PST

I've never really understood the purpose of the convention "theme."

It will be interesting to see just how many games are run on this theme.

I have often found that those who rant the loudest about Political Correctness are those who are Bleeped texted off that they are not allowed to be impolite or rude any more. grin

Personal logo richarDISNEY of the RDGC Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 3:09 p.m. PST

Game Con's have 'themes'?
Never heard of that.
beer

morrigan04 Jan 2013 3:56 p.m. PST

"I have often found that those who rant the loudest about Political Correctness are those who are ed off that they are not allowed to be impolite or rude any more."

Or the ones who used to get beat up at recess…..

coastal204 Jan 2013 4:03 p.m. PST

A little late for righteous outrage since this has been up on the site for some time, don't you think?

As for being a lame or stupid theme: 1) As already noted, there have been many women in combat over the years, so its justified on those grounds. 2) Themes for conventions are, in general, a lame and stupid idea. Throwing a hissy fit over something as inconsequential as this is beyond reason…

historygamer04 Jan 2013 4:09 p.m. PST

"Yea, it's one of the dumber theme's…you gotta wonder how the braintrust comes up with this stuff, particularly in a year with Napoleonic and War of 1812 anniversaries out the wazoo…"

Dave, why let history get in the way of a really dumb idea. :-)

So what will be the theme games, other than fantasy? Oh…. never mind. :-(

Okay, off the top of my head… Molly Pitcher, the British chick led all those men to attack the Romans, Clara Barton (non-combat, but figure could be on the board), Kay Summersby, ahhhh, ahhhh, anyone else?

Then of course there were all thos Amazon armies fighting zombies….

At least they got the theme right for Hcon. :-)

historygamer04 Jan 2013 4:10 p.m. PST

Hey Dale, that's only one figure. Where are the rest? :-) Unless it is a role playing game.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 4:12 p.m. PST

The problem with Women as a theme is that there are few examples of battles with women. If the theme is a class of fighting people like Scots or a specific war, or era or geographic area, then there can be games with them. What now constitutes a theme game. It has a woman in it?

In the past there have been awards to best theme games. Seems late to announce the theme as the game registrations are in.

I was hoping that Historicon '13 would have as a theme, The History of Gaming with old time games being rewarded. In honor of the Little Wars 100 anniversary. Too bad they do not want to honor their roots.

If I were going to Cold Wars, I would run a VBCW game with my Women's Institute Battalion

picture

picture

vs the BUF Women's Naval Armed Auxiliary

picture

155th NYVI Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 4:37 p.m. PST

Well what do you expect when women are on the HMGS board? They don't game, they don't paint, there only on the board cause there husband put them there! Of corse they will do women themes. Can't wait to see what tampon company sponsors this years flea market!

historygamer04 Jan 2013 4:39 p.m. PST

Well, all kidding aside, you hit the nail on the head: since the idea is to "wargame" – this isn't a practical theme at all.

DeanMoto Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 4:54 p.m. PST

If anything, the theme may limit the amount of games – although there would be some variety – Penthesilea in the Trojan War to Dahomey "Amazons" battling Colonial French.

Here in the Pacific NW the annual historical convention Enfilade! nhmgs.org/index.html has chosen a theme (first time in it's 20-plus year history, I believe) for 2013. The theme is "Warfare on the Silver Screen" basically anything based on a favorite "war movie" or the like if only partially. Pretty much opens it up for any period and genre from One Million Years B.C. to Star Wars.

Personal logo elsyrsyn Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 4:56 p.m. PST

Well, all kidding aside, you hit the nail on the head: since the idea is to "wargame" this isn't a practical theme at all.

Boudica, Joan of Arc, Hua Mulan, and Zenobia might disagree.

Doug

vojvoda Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 5:18 p.m. PST

Klumpenproletariat ON 04 Jan 2013 10:53 a.m. PST wrote:

I've never really understood the purpose of the convention "theme."

That is an easy one. To get people talking and excited about the conventions. When I did promotions for conventions we used theme etc as part of the marketing and outreach plans.

VR
James Mattes

historygamer04 Jan 2013 5:31 p.m. PST

elsyrsyn:

Again, single figures on a game board, hardly something to build a theme around, especially if you are using 15mm, 10mm, 6mm figures. I'll leave micro armor out of the discussion. Unless you are suggesting the themes are now being built around adding one figure to each game?

Hey, how about a M*A*S*H game? :-)

historygamer04 Jan 2013 5:31 p.m. PST

How would you count Klinger in that game?

Garryowen Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 5:35 p.m. PST

I have no use for politcal correctness and do not knwo the motivationin picking this theme.
However, I am running a Vietnam game and stated it was a theme game as I will put a female local force VC in one of the bad guy squads.
I am not sure what beneift I get from running a theme game. Also, probably no one will notice this one 20mm figure is a female.
Tom

historygamer04 Jan 2013 5:40 p.m. PST

I heard a rumor that next year's theme might be "3000 years of Drag Queens." I could be wrong. :-) Highland troops in kilts do not count.

vagamer63 Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 6:05 p.m. PST

Guess you all missed the announcement that the theme for Cold Wars 2013 had been changed!!!!

Lots of more wasted space in the www!!!!!!

historygamer04 Jan 2013 7:29 p.m. PST

Gee, I wonder why?

Personal logo Don Manser Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 7:58 p.m. PST

Changed to what Inuit Wars?

How about 98 Years of Conscientious Objectors.

DM

historygamer04 Jan 2013 8:03 p.m. PST

So did they change it before or after everyone stopped laughing? :-)

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 8:53 p.m. PST

vagamer63, It seems the change was a bit late as there are 30 some Theme games in the PEL that have women's names in title
"F-102 – Elizabeth at Sea: "Stop the Armada" July 1588 – Theme Game"
or are about Amazons, or Queen Boudica, or Soviet women pilots, or some other female aspect.

Or is your reference to the woman' s prerogative to change her mind?

coastal204 Jan 2013 10:40 p.m. PST

And the front page of the Cold Wars site still has the Women Warriors theme.

Bunkermeister04 Jan 2013 11:10 p.m. PST

MRS Bunkermeister says:

"If they did 98 Years of Conscientious Objectors they would have to move the game to Canada.

Will they have Zena, Warrior Princess?"

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

rvandusen05 Jan 2013 5:45 a.m. PST

picture

155th NYVI Inactive Member05 Jan 2013 7:52 a.m. PST

They could get a valijo paint to sponers the "fifty shade of gray" painting contest.

Greenfield Games05 Jan 2013 10:44 a.m. PST

What a depressing thread. Perhaps next year the theme could be Misogynistic Neanderthals of Wargaming. You know, to balance it out.

Personal logo Don Manser Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2013 1:55 p.m. PST

Expressing your disagreement with a convention theme choice doesn't equate to the hatred of women.

Neanderthal Misogynists or Progressive Philogynists with nothing in the middle.

Just love "the new normal".

DM

historygamer05 Jan 2013 5:14 p.m. PST

Yeah, I agree. I don't think any of us here hate women. And certainly pointing out a dumb theme choice for a wargaming convention that can't be practically applied to a game doesn't equate to that either.

The fact is that the history of women when applied to wargames is not really practical, as you simply can't equate anything meaningful into such a game. Acknowledging the roles women have played in war over the centuries is certainly another matter – but the two are not related. Unless you can enlighten us how to do that?

Personal logo Don Manser Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2013 6:16 p.m. PST

It's like saying if you weren't exactly thrilled with the "Viva La Revolucion" theme of 2011, you didn't like Mexicans.

DM

altfritz Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2013 9:01 p.m. PST

I'm thinking there have been some so-called "theme" games in past years that have had pretty tenuous claims themselves.

Wasn't there a AWI battle which featured a female gunner? I can't quite recall but someone on this forum probably knows something about the revolution.

What was it Laura Secord gets such a bi\g deal made about – wasn't there a battle (or skirmish) there?

Seems to me there's lot's of scenarios out there to be gamed.

historygamer05 Jan 2013 9:17 p.m. PST

altfritz:

You are thinking of Molly Pitcher at Monmouth, NJ 1778.

But again, do you really build an entire theme around one figure on the table? Really? So how easy is that to see in 15, 10, or 6mm? Themes are usually wars, not subsets of history. Though I did hear the next theme will be "Going against the Right – Left Handed Warriors in Time". Or is that the new Osprey book?

Personal logo StarfuryXL5 Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2013 11:13 p.m. PST

i just realized the only women figures I own are civilians

Catfight!

ViscountEric Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2013 8:14 a.m. PST

The theme for Historicon changed from "Scots at War" to ACW 1863.

As much as the Women in Warfare theme is a flop, I'd much rather have that than yet another Napoloenic/ACW theme that will attract a handful of new attendees, the same recycled games that we see every year, and an overpriced Guest of Honor speaker.

I'd much rather have a Wars of Latin America theme, or Samurai, or a vague Medieval one if it meant new boards, figs, and learning something (but not too much to interfere with dice chucking).

Cincinnatus Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2013 9:23 a.m. PST

The theme should appeal to most of the targeted population and hopefully encourage them to do something that coincides with it. Let's not kid ourselves that a theme is going to do more than that. It's not the place to make a statement or to try to market to a new crowd.

SFC Retired07 Jan 2013 5:46 a.m. PST

I work at the US Army Women's Museum at FT lee. We have a photo kiosk in our gallery that honors the 100+ women who are KIA since the WAR ON TERROR began in 2001…tell them they are Politically Correct.

awm.lee.army.mil

SFC Retired

historygamer07 Jan 2013 9:26 a.m. PST

I don't think anyone is denigrating the contribution of women during wartime, but many of us are scratching our heads on how that was expected to be executed via wargaming. So again, perhaps you could explain that to the rest of us and we can leave the politics aside here.

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