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"House Rules for Blitzkrieg Commander" Topic


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Action Log

04 Jan 2013 7:25 a.m. PST
by The Editor

  • Removed from WWII Discussion board

780 hits since 4 Jan 2013
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Trajanus04 Jan 2013 7:04 a.m. PST

We are looking to change a couple of things in BC2.

Firstly to ditch the Warmaster system of having as many actions as you can beat your command rating for and swap it for the Hail Caesar max of three actions in a turn. This to avoid the process of one side being reduced to a spectator, which can happen with the right dice rolls.

We will keep the command/doctrine modifiers as per the game.

Secondly, we find the process of removing all hits at the end of a turn really frustrating given the firepower available. So we are going to try keeping the hits from turn to turn but reducing the number accrued by one hit each turn if the unit is not Suppressed at the end of it.

Any thoughts?

Todd63604 Jan 2013 7:19 a.m. PST

You must have some lucky dice rolling. Most complaints seem to be that they can't activate anyone.

To your second point, maybe just remove one hit instead of them all?

I really do like the rules but agree it needs a bit of tweaking.

advocate04 Jan 2013 7:44 a.m. PST

I think commands will have to be pre-specified before the command roll as in HC (eg fire twice then advance).

You may want to play with the command-roll numbers: HC makes it more likely you'll get 3 commands rather than 2 for example; and if you are playing with HQ's with a value of 7 you can still spend a lot of time doing nothing. I'd be inclined to try raising the chances of 1 action to anything but 11-12; 2 actions would be the standard command roll and 3 for rolling under half the number required. But it depends on the effect you want to produce.

You will need to decide what is a reasonable 'brigade' order. In BC units can be given different orders for a given command roll, but in HC they need to be operating together. Can the same order encompass half the units firing while (before?) the remainder advance? Could a close assault be conditional on the target being supressed? Or are they separate orders?

You've reduced the number of possible activations, so increasing the effect of hits (by making them cumulative) is reasonable. Taking off only one per turn may be too little, however: you'll need to playtest that quite thoroughly. And disrupted units are heavily penalised anyway, so not allowing them to recover makes the effect even worse.

Schlesien Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 8:14 a.m. PST

To me the concept of one side becoming a spectator is the result of failing all the time on the first command role not one side having overwhelming command role successes. I play with the rules as is and have no problems with it. Convention game wise, you could allow for every command have an automatic first command sucess each turn, then role after that.

Ark3nubis04 Jan 2013 8:34 a.m. PST

My mate and I came up with a Platoon based game that took this command structure from BC, mixed with the shooting mechanic from (more or less) from Battlefield Evolution.

He eventually had the same idea as yourself after a few games of still using the Command rolls with the cumulatively increasing negative modifier for each roll (-1, then -2 etc) but making the maximum amount of actions permissible by a unit as being 3, the same as in Hail Ceasar I believe (I haven't played so not sure) I didn't like this.

My solution, keep the activation/command structure the same, however any unit that fails it's CMD test (and so would otherwise do nothing this turn) was still permitted to either;
a) Remain stationary and shoot
b) Go to Ground (Hide/increased cover
c) Fall back/retreat

Tgis REALLY helped with the frustration of some turns having a players units do nothing if the rolls went bad as it allowed a bit of decision making, even if it was limited, thus keeping us playing.

The frustration we found with the method you adopted above was that the higher CMD units would mostly get 3 actions, medium/lower would tend to be split 50/50 between no actions or all three, but those getting all three would therefore not be able to capitalise on getting more.

It was also fairer that the limiting/control factor was the CMD level only, and not another restriction of max 3 actions per turn. Hence the solution I have given above that still allows a limited choice of actions for a unit that has failed their CMD roll.

As for hit removal, we resolved the effects of hits at the start of a unit's turn (within their first action) by rolling against the CMD level of the unit to see if they could ignore the effects of the hits. I have't played BkC properly so can't comment on the detail of BkC.

Hope that helps, let us know how you get on!

Ark3n

Ark3nubis04 Jan 2013 8:36 a.m. PST

Also, as for being a spectator, from what I know of Battlegroup Kurk for instance, ( a game I have yet to play) the command structure there also results in units not preforming any actions for many turns if the command goes astray, so a frustrated reaction to a similar outcome representation in BkC seems a bit misplaced given the above. I haven't, as I said, played BkC so am speaking out of ignorance,

Ark

miniMo Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 8:56 a.m. PST

I've really enjoyed using teh houseulel that the first order for each commander works, but if the roll fails there are no additional orders. Completely avoids teh spectator game which isn't fun for either player.

For folks who don't like taking an abstract approach to hits primarily equal loss of unit effectiveness rather than pure physical damage, there has been some discussion of housrule options on the BKC forum: link

Generalstoner49 Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 10:21 a.m. PST

I play CWC and one of the things we have added is that hits stay. Playing M1A2 Abrams with 2+ armor saves and needing to put 5 hits on them in a turn can be near impossible. Even with the leftover hits staying they are a bear to kill.

As for the command orders we have left that as even command 10 generally only get 2-3 actions.

doug612504 Jan 2013 11:06 a.m. PST

Keeping hits on models is suggetsed as an optional rule anway I seem to recall

Trajanus04 Jan 2013 11:48 a.m. PST

Is it indeed! Must have missed that part. Nice to know we could be on the right lines.

You must have some lucky dice rolling. Most complaints seem to be that they can't activate anyone.

Well we seem to do pretty well on activation. Its a real game killer if you hit a streak with two or three HQs and the opposition folds after only only one per HQ, for example.

Playing M1A2 Abrams with 2+ armor saves and needing to put 5 hits on them in a turn can be near impossible

Well yes and there are WW2 versions of that too.

there has been some discussion of housrule options on the BKC forum

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

skinkmasterreturns Inactive Member04 Jan 2013 12:51 p.m. PST

Warmaster Ancients has the 3 order limit as well.I like the rule where the first order is allowed on anything except an 11 or 12,then reverting to the normal command structure.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jan 2013 11:54 p.m. PST

I might give Future War commander another shot with these suggestions. We played it a bunch with Epic stuff at the time and the Orks just got slaughtered. I think the best they ever did was kill about 8 stands of marines when there were 2500 pts of Orks and 1000 pts of marines.

This might change things. Also, after thinking about it, I might add rules for a move/shoot order where you move half and get a penalty for shooting.

Trajanus05 Jan 2013 4:07 a.m. PST

Warmaster Ancients has the 3 order limit as well

You know what? You are absolutely right!

Memory failure on my part. We played Warmaster Ancients with 25mm and increased the movement and ranges because the 10mm distances looked silly and the shooting distance didn't work with 25mm bases.

The end result was that units, particularly cavalry, shot across the table if the player got all three activations. So if all of his 'Divisions' were as successful, on some occasions it was virtually game over after the first couple of turns.

So I was describing the real problem with a partially incorrect cause!

Trajanus05 Jan 2013 4:12 a.m. PST

Keeping hits on models is suggetsed as an optional rule anway I seem to recall

Further investigation confirms this. Its not in the Optional Rules section but in the main body of the rules in summary of actions for the end of a turn.

Its mentioned as an option to help speed up play. Which is another good reason for using it as far as I'm concerned!

Dwarf King Inactive Member26 Jan 2013 1:23 p.m. PST

In the 1st edition rules (3rd print), I like the optional damage rule for AFVs and anti-tank guns.

thomalley26 Jan 2013 4:50 p.m. PST

This to avoid the process of one side being reduced to a spectator, which can happen with the right dice rolls.

Welcome to the friction of warfare. Giving everyone the same activations, you might as well play chess. Germans in early war should be out performing whoever they are fighting.

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