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"Stretch Goals and you want me spend MORE?" Topic


19 Posts

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859 hits since 2 Jan 2013
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Mr Elmo02 Jan 2013 5:35 p.m. PST

I've seen a lot of Kickstarter Stretch Goals where the "reward" is a chance to give away more money.

As in: we just reached $800 USDK, now you can add another miniature for $25 USD!! Excuse me, but if you reached 800K, backers should be getting more, not merely the ability to pay more.

It looks like I will need to judge on the merit of the original deal. Oh, and don't do early bird buy ins for $75 USD that get sold out and everyone else can only get the same thing for $100. USD Once I notice I'll get screwed for backing, I won't.

The Tin Dictator02 Jan 2013 5:53 p.m. PST

If you're so concerned that they might pull something over on you. Or that someone else might get more than you got, don't participate.

You agreed to a certain deal.
They offer you the option of altering the deal.
You choose not to because you think they should have offered a different option (ie..giving you more for nothing).

In the end the deal is as it was.
Who was screwed?

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2013 6:25 p.m. PST

They have altered the deal.
Pray they do not alter it any further.

(Oh, come on. Someone was gonna say it…)

Personal logo Fergal Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Jan 2013 6:51 p.m. PST

I have to say that I like the idea of lower backing prices for early backers. Don't think about it as you getting screwed, think about it as those that back early get rewarded more. Because that's exactly what's going on.

I was surprised as well when I fist saw the, here's your stretch goal, spend more for this new model that is available. But it has become very common and I suppose I'm used to it now. I think it might be an effect of the all or nothing nature of kickstarter. You want to shoot for a number that you can reach, but heck if you make that number and exceed it, you can afford to produce a few more pieces, but you might not be able to give them away. It's making more sense to me all the time.

My kickstarter added the stretchgoals to backers of a certain tier and above and made them options for the lower tiers that weren't getting one (or more) of everything. That seemed a nice compromise.

In the end though, if you don't like what they are offering, just don't pledge. Life's to short to let it get you riled up. :) Most things can be purchases after the kickstater for a straight amount.

Personal logo Goober Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2013 7:05 p.m. PST

It varies from project to project. If you look at things like the Reaper Bones and Sedition Wars Kickstarters, for an initial commitment you got the base set. The stretch goals added some additional items on top of that and added some optional items at extra cost. By the end you still ended up with a bucket load of figures for a absolute bargain deal even if you didn't go for any of the optional stretch goals.

If every stretch goal was a paid add-on I'd call foul, but a mix of additional items and the option to add stuff in is about right, I feel.

G.

Personal logo Black Hat Miniatures Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 2:45 a.m. PST

It depends on what is being offered and how big the company is.

I know of at least one Kickstarter that has lost its creator money because they miscalculated and gave away too much as stretch goals.

Reaper set a precedent for the way people want stretch goals to work but they could afford to "give away" figures as they cost them mere pence to produce.

The same isn't true for metal figures which have a fixed cost.

I don't have a problem of being offered extra figures below RRP if the company raises enough money to cover initial goals.


Mike

Mr Elmo03 Jan 2013 4:57 a.m. PST

I have to say that I like the idea of lower backing prices for early backers. Don't think about it as you getting screwed

Once I see an early backer price of $75 USD, that is what I will pay. NOT the $90 USD "backers now pay more" NOT the $110 USD MSRP. To me, that game can rot on shelves and maybe I'll see one in the bargain bin or Flea market for $75 USD

I use KS as a preorder system so I back on the merit of the original deal. But, if the stretch goals don't give ME anything, what is the incentive to get friends to also back the project? Things won't get better for me.

Personal logo Goober Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 6:44 a.m. PST

You are missing the point, Mr Elmo. Kickstarter isn't a way to get cheap stuff – although there certainly are opportunities to get some excellent deals – it's a way to get stuff that you might not ever have got at all otherwise.

The name says it all, you are kickstarting a project – that's why many offer limited numbers of lower priced options – to encourage people to pledge early to get the project going.

If you miss the limited $75 USD deal and decide that the $90 USD dollar deal isn't for you, then the game might not hit it's funding target and you may not get the opportunity to see it rot on shelves for it's $110 USD RRP.

G.

Pedrobear Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 7:15 a.m. PST

"Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee."

LeadLair76 Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 7:16 a.m. PST

I can see why people do not like the early bird specials and I can also see why they are used. Of course it sucks to not get as good of a deal as the other guy! But at the same time it really helps to get things rolling if you have a cheaper buy in level for a limited number of people.

I don't think you should get angry over the issue though. the vast majority of kickstarters are done by individuals or very small businesses that would not be able to bring the product to market without help from kickstarter.

KenofYork03 Jan 2013 7:34 a.m. PST

I have grown weary of kickstarter. There are too many.

It feels like a lazy way of doing business, IMHO. A company makes profit or falls flat based on their aspirations. There is usually an element of risk involved. Money borrowed, long hours worked for nothing, valuables sold to finance your plans or something. Kickstarter seems to by-pass the usual path way.

I prefer the old method.

Also, I have not come up with a clever kickstarter myself. So the whole sour grapes thing is in full effect here.

BUT, to the OP's point. Some of the kicks seem less a bargain than others. And the risk is yours alone, since the products might be crappy or not appear at all.

LeadLair76 Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 8:04 a.m. PST

@kenofYork

I guess I just don't understand where you are coming from. You talk about money borrowed but how am I supposed to borrow money when I am just starting? Reality just doesn't work that way. A lot of people cannot just walk into a bank and ask for 50,000 dollars, pounds, yen, or whatever currency they use.

I don't particularly like big companies using kickstarter because I feel that they tend to overshadow the small guy but they also have brought a lot of exposure to kickstarter and increased the user base especially in the tabletop area. So as with most things there is some good and some bad involved.

At the end of the day I use kickstarter once in a while when I feel I am getting a good deal and I actually want what is being offered. So far I have been happy backing zombiecide, battle for alabaster, and a couple other small things like computer games.

Personal logo Fergal Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 8:21 a.m. PST

@LeadLair76 – I think you missed KenofYork's sarcasm. Which is a shame as it was really well executed.

LeadLair76 Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 8:56 a.m. PST

Yeah I did…… that is what I get for reading at work.

KenofYork03 Jan 2013 6:06 p.m. PST

Yes, I was poking fun at myself for stupidly and stubbornly working like a fool. If I was smart enough I could have saved a lot of frustration.

This video demonstrates the differences;\

YouTube link

I do agree with the big companies perhaps not really needing a kick start.

Personal logo nazrat Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 6:07 p.m. PST

I don't see sarcasm there, either, even after you said it was there. But I liked his post.

Personal logo Fergal Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 6:52 p.m. PST

@KenofYork – Now I can't tell where the sarcasm is. One might assume that you're insinuating that there is no work that goes into a (well executed) kickstater campaign? I believe that I've worked as hard as anyone else who is producing miniatures.

What kickstarter offers is not a stress free or easy path to a product, but simply the funding up front. It also allows MANY MANY more niche products to flourish. Sometimes you even get a say in what's produced. I'd love to see that from any of the big boys producing miniatures.

KenofYork03 Jan 2013 8:15 p.m. PST

No insult intended. Sorry if it appears that way. I am just a bit envious of those doing kickstarter.

The hardest part of any venture is stepping off that ledge and hoping you can fly.

Kickstarter removes that part. In a way making sure you can fly before you step.

My nerves would have thanked me if I had had the funding in advance.

Good luck on your ventures, and sorry if I swerved this off topic of the OP.

Personal logo Fergal Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jan 2013 8:39 p.m. PST

No worries mate! Believe me the stomach wrenching parts are still there, just at the front of the process rather than the end. Though I suppose that pales in comparison to the leap in anxiety.

I really believe the system has great merit! We truly live in an amazing time where the internet can allow like minded folks to get together and crowd fund cool projects. It's really great to take the bankers out of the equation. I find it liberating to ask the crowd if they would like to see "X figure" made rather than convincing a bank (or my wife) to get the money.

It's just icing on the cake that backers get things cheaper than it will be sold on the market afterwards.

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