"Armored Greek/Cretan Archers" Topic

I have seen several references to the use of linothorax by Archers in the later Hellenistic Period. I have seen much debate on this issue, I am mixed, although the use of light armor by mercenaries or elite formations does seem logical to me.

I was reading a post by Stefanos Skarmintzos in which he refers to archeological evidence in the following post. link

Does anyone know where this evidence was found?

The Nereid monument in the British museum has 2 archers in linothorax and helmets, depicted in a siege setting. There's a picture of them in the Osprey Ancient Greek book.

Cheers, Simon

In fact…

Bottom left. Simon

From the depiction on the Nereid and Aegina monuments one can conclude that the first argument against the issue- the argument that linen armor cuirass is impossible to use with a bow is irrelevant, as it seems possible, in more than one example.

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Cretans were mercenaries so they probably supplied their own kit. My guess is that like hierarchical groups, the young men would have nothing, they would apprentice as indentured servants. At some point they would have bows and quivers to go with their national garb, as they grew older they would acquire other gear, either via loot or hand me downs or purchase what they wanted. If a Cretan felt that he wasn't encumbered to wear a linen cuirass, I doubt there were any hard and fast rules… after all in most armies gear was rarely state provided. Armies consistently have younger men , more fleet of foot and less well armored that are sent ahead of the older men, volunteers vying for favor among their elders… these occur whether they are hoplite outrunners or phalangite back rankers… so that's why I always support a mixed look to my Cretans… and Greek archers in general. It's only game rules that get fussy about how well protected the models are and how that factors are. I would guess that helmets of the closed in kind would not be helpful for loosing arrows, but a pilos helmet would be less restrictive that even a broad brimmed walking hat.

Of course my bias has always been that Cretans were somewhat more of a hth combat troop type than typical archers in Greek and Macedonian and Successor (and even Roman armies), as they seem to operate more like peltasts with bows. Later at Raphia and in the Successor period we hear of Cretans with javelins as well, so I suspect they became more useful cross trained troops. Greek psiloi, certainly were the poorest equipped soldiers in the Greek army. However oarsmen often became pressed into service on land, they had money and could afford armor- since they were well paid. Also marines may have worn armor on the deck and used bows. But I would say again we are talking about a percentage of a few armored archers.. not "units" of armored archers.

There is the well known anecdote of the Cretans manning the crest of the pass against the Romans in the Macedonian wars, and then standing their ground and trying to hold off the Romans with arrows used as hand weapons…. you don't see too many models showing that!! The Cretans were routed, but it is interesting that they even tried.

One of the other interesting side topics is the Cretan range issue… lots of games give them some kind of superior range bonus, but Xenophon states the opposite. The heavy arrows of the Cretans were out ranged by the Persians… so the heavy arrow point and stout bows most likely made them more effective short bowmen because their arrow points inflicted more damage and maybe penetrated armor better.

Of course I still love my big nosed Essex Cretans with armor..

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JJ

Not previously seen the Aegina monument JJ- the armour is lovely!

Re Cretans, I believe there are suggestions that some carried shields, which would make them quite a flexible troop type. Can't recall where I saw the article, though, probably an old Slingshot.

Re Raphia JJ, where did you read of the Cretans with javelins, please? Sounds interesting…

Cheers, Simon

As always…thanks Jeff!

Another thing, JJ, I don't suppose you know what the difference is between a Cretan and a neo-Cretan, please?

Cheers, Simon

My recollection is that neo cretan is identified as ethnic settlers in the empire, the same as neo Agrianians and neo Thracians. So these were troops that would fight in their style but were not necessarily actually from Crete. The same as "Tarentine" became a cavalry style, no longer associated from Tarentine citizens. My suspicion is the description of neo-Cretans is to identify them as separate from Cretan mercenaries from Crete, as there were legal issues with their services based on Roman Senatorial 'rules'. Muddying the issue is it seems that neo-cretans are associated with javelin men. But I don't have my Griffith here… need to go to a library and check that out again..

Thanks JJ, that is very useful! Much appreciated, Simon