"hidden movement app?" Topic

I was thinking…could you make an app where you drew the map and it did hidden movement? Side A would move on the app and it would call out contacts. Then side B would go…

Could work but your maps need to be good and match the table

A line of sight aware app would be hard. The best I can think of is indicating hidden units on a photo of the table and a sketch app.

There are map applications similar to this, so feasible, if you could customize. It would be proximity, not line of site, though. There would be indicators/blinds on the map, but opponent would not know what was there until revealed. Someone will happen along with something more elegant hopefully.

I was thinking of an area-movement app. It would work like this:

In "Set Up" you define the map as X squares by Z squares. Then you "tap" each square or square edge and give it a terrain type (woods, open, hill, village, swamp). You ignore terrain that does not block LOS (a stream for example).

The app puts you and your opponent "on map" only when both of you are in the same square. For LOS you just use "handwavium" and say LOS is a lot less than we see on the table owing to folds in the land, minor foliage etc.

Not a perfect solution, but one that needs no GM or double tables….

Sounds like an app version of the Feldmachink.

link

Seargent Paper. That looks brilliant.

Mark, you should manufacture and sell these things. I'll take a reasonably priced one.

Tom

I was thinking of an area-movement app

So, the "perfect app" would be as follows:

1) Allow users to choose a photo to use as the grid background. Presumably, this is the gaming table.
2) Users then set grid size over that photo. So, if you have a 4x6' table and want 12" squares, the grid is 4x6
3) Each square can be either: Always visible, adjacent visible or same visible. Also, you can define an edge between two squares to be blocking.
4) App should communicate via Wi-Fi or Bluetooth with other devices in a "shared game"

How much would you pay: $4.99 USD or even $9.99 USD?

Gack. A Feldmachink app would be ridiculously easy to code.

Lifecycle should include:
1. Take photo of the map.
2. Transform photo into overhead view. (Probably the most complicated part of the program.)
3. Overlay grid.
4. Play the game.

Now, if you guys were willing to pay real money instead of $0.99 USD, I could add line of sight code, but that would require object recognition code — probably some sort of lasso tool that would conform to a same-colored blob in your picture. Or maybe just draw blocks in the picture that delineate line of sight blockage.

Hrm. I need to ponder that GUI, and maybe think about LOS a bit harder.

Please suggest type of LOS rules that you might want to see. I might be able to code this up is a weekend in January. (iOS only. If somebody wants to volunteer to convert my code to 'droid, sing out.)

Elmo — if you're iOS only, you can use the Game Center framework for communication.

A post on BoardGameGeek suggested adding partial information to the Feldmachink by using different-length dowels – so a search might reveal a little info (presence) or a lot (unit info).

This might be tied to the searcher's capabilities (in a F&I war scenario, a scout might identify the unit, while a regular soldier might be limited to 'I see somebody'…)

Yes, I would pay $4.99 USD, or $9.99 USD if it got good reviews about ease of use and utility. iPad app, of course. :^)

Dale

And all credit for the Feldmachink goes to the Perfect Captain, not me. I just think its a cool idea that might work in this situation.

Elmo:

No need to "communicate." It gets loaded on on machine (say, an iPad). It has a screen for player A who markes his moves. Then he hits "Turn Done" which clears teh display and hands it to Player B who hits "Start Player B Turn" which puts all his stuff on the display. You'd want a setting for number of players, size of grid etc.

I'd pay $10 USD for that.

Mark

Incidentally…if you knew you were going to use hidden movement with this app, you might fudge your terrain just a tad to align with your grids a bit. I am building a 6x9 table and would probably use 8" squares as the basis for my map.

Regarding LOS – I'd keep it very simple. Set a limit to how far you can see (1 square? 2 squares? Unlimited). Ignore diagonals and just go by squares (so assume units fill the whole square of you get my meaning).

I seem to remember Donald Featherstone describing something very similar to the Feldmachink in one of his books years ago. The Featherstone version (again French & Indian Wars) was intended mainly for hidden map movement in campaign games and used empty matchboxes stuck together to form a chest with each box corresponding to a grid square on the map. The players took it in turns to make map moves, with the first player to go putting a slip of paper into the box for the map square each of his units entered that turn.

Sadly, when I was finally able to collect enough matchboxes, I couldn't create a stable structure and the thing kept falling apart. Neat idea though.

No need to "communicate."

It's what's known as "hot seat" mode in turn-based console gaming. Any app would probably need to implement Hot Seat *anyway*, because you can't assume that your users will shell out for multiple devices.

Incidentally…if you knew you were going to use hidden movement with this app, you might fudge your terrain just a tad to align with your grids a bit. I am building a 6x9 table and would probably use 8" squares as the basis for my map.

Grid sizing would probably be something you can set in your preferences.

Regarding LOS – I'd keep it very simple.

If I were doing it, version 1.0 would be simple. If the app sells, you can add other LOS options.

I'd pay $10 USD for that.

$10 USD? Really? Heck, that would mean I'd only have to sell 20 of 'em to break even on the project. (I'd need to upgrade my Apple developer account, and put together all the doing-business-as whoopie that California would require.)

Assuming, of course, that Elmo doesn't beat me to it.

Keep us apprised.

Assuming, of course, that Elmo doesn't beat me to it.

I have no plans to start development. Mobile Software is my day job and I don't need it for a hobby. Now if someone wants to pony up the money to MAKE it my job we can talk.

You won't see this app from me, even if it was cool, until this day job thing comes to an end

Perhaps I feel a Kickstarter to help fund the Mark's overseas development costs.

@Some Chicken

Yes, I've still got the Featherstone matchbox contraption I built years ago. It works just fine and cost pennies. You can use it for tactical movement on-table or for campaign games without a referee. It probably works best for the latter.

Until some clever person creates an Android app to do the same thing, I'll stick with it I guess.

You won't see this app from me, even if it was cool, until this day job thing comes to an end

I am not secure in my day job, currently, so am looking for a way to be my own boss.

I shall use this as an excuse to test out the Apple's approval process. If I am as good as my word, I'll post up a thread by January asking people about UI preferences.

We did a map campaign using the matchbox concept,except we used one of the toolchests with the rows of little drawers in them for storing nuts and bolts. I spray painted the drawers black,and used small numbered tokens instead of slips of paper.

Any possibility of adding a user defined terrain generator as well?

It depends on what you mean by "terrain generation". Please be more specific.

In any case, that's probably more work. Apple's got some of the whiz-bang image transformation functions built right into their Core Image framework, so this first app will look really cool but probably won't take me that long.

In contrast, a good-looking terrain app would need a lot of art and some painful GUI design sessions. If I do it, it'll definitely be a second app.

Hint: when that first app gets done, buy a copy and shower me with praise.

I think what WeeSparky might mean is, could you deinfe a grid – say 8x12 (assuming 6" squares) and the app would randomly fill in a map for you with a river, woods hills etc.

My idea would only need 3 or 4 kinds of terrain, because you're really only concerned with LOS. All woods, jungles, copses, etc. are one type. Any terrain that does not block LOS would not need to be included (fields, rocky/broken ground).

If what WeeSparky wants is a collection of maps to use, look at the Red Actions campaign from Perfect Captain.

I was talking with my artist, and we have the GUI idea for that figured out: basically, a preferences view with slider bars to control the percentage of terrain types, along with a maximum number for each type so the generator doesn't ask for more objects than you own. So if you've only got two buildings, the app doesn't ask for three.

Still going to be a separate app, though, with outputs that are exportable to the first.

Meiczslaw,

I was going to PM you, but I'll pop this in here instead. I think this idea has GREAT kickstarter potential, I would go as far as to say that this is the type of thing that Kickstarter was created for. Something that doesn't exist, a great idea, a guy that can do it, and folks that want it.

You might find that instead of the $200 USD for 20 people you would like to cover expenses, you'll get $2,000 USD and be able to put the added beautiful touches on it. Leaving the folks who want it happier and yourself an impressive first step to show off for future ventures?

Something like,

$5 USD buy the app
$10 USD buy app and help beta test
$20 USD access to development forum where features are discussed?
$250 USD name it "Scale Creep Hidden Movement App" :)

Just a suggestion, as it will be a paid app anyway, just trying to make a suggestion that will make everyone even happier?

If you think my idea, stinks, please carry on! I think what you are doing is admirable and can't wait to see/purchase what you come up with.

After reading that, I would say before a kickstarter was started, take your weekend in January to get your initial steps together and create the basic app. That way you can show what you are capable of, show that off in the Kickstarter page.

Then say what you can add to the app if you meet your funding level. ie, spend more on art, spend more time on features, etc…

I would SO support this. To a point. I know that people aren't going to be leaping out of the trees to buy this thing, so the customer base will be small. So yes, I would pay about up to 9.99 to have the capability. And I would consider backing it.

Walt

$250 name it "Scale Creep Hidden Movement App" :)

OK, that's funny.

I will ponder your Kickstarter suggestion, because you're right in one sense -- feature creep could kill this thing before it gets off the ground, which is why I talk about multiple apps.

What it means, though, is that I'd need to research a way to transform Kickstarter rewards to the App Store. Sounds like I'm trawling the Apple website again tonight.

I've been through the kickstarter process before, drop me a line if you ever have any questions about that part of the process. Start the application process early, there's plenty of hoops.

An app developer that can earn enough to cater to us wacky historical gamers would be nice.

I've been through the kickstarter process before, drop me a line if you ever have any questions about that part of the process.

Will do. Right now, it would appear that the two paths are:

1) Produce small, interlinked apps; each of which can be written in a weekend or two, and reuse art from the Big Thing I'm working on (which is why "I have an artist"); OR

2) Put together a Kickstarter for a big honkin' multi-featured app that would allow me to quit my day job and pay the artist full-time.

My gut tells me that #1 is more likely to be followed, but the arrangement is such that I can actually chase the two paths in parallel.

An app developer that can earn enough to cater to us wacky historical gamers would be nice.

This isn't just catering to the historical gamers. I can see this being useful in a bunch of genres. (Starships in a nebula, for example. Or Malifaux in fog on the docks.)

My vote is for path number one. Start small and get something out there that does one or two things well. Avoid feature-creep initially.

Don't quit your day job yet. :). But if you are really optimistic, plan 2 weeks notice into your delivery date. :). :) a more realistic expectation for your first app might be a slightly upgraded vacation this year and a shed load of experience making and distributing apps that you can apply in the future.

Any movement on this Meiczyslaw? Just got into app coding and might give it a whack if its not on the way from you.

I can't PM you, so I'm trying to contact you here.