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"German Cavalry Briefing for FoW" Topic


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768 hits since 2 Dec 2012
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 7:05 a.m. PST

Has anyone done one ?.. I apoogise if this has been asked before, but have had a trawl and can't find one and OOB data is quite thin on the ground too..

Anatoli02 Dec 2012 10:06 a.m. PST

You can find an Early War German cavalry list in my September Campaign book: link

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 11:50 a.m. PST

Anatoli,

So many thanks! Brilliant!

(Stolen Name)02 Dec 2012 1:53 p.m. PST

1
Organization of German Cavalry Regiment
June 1941
Division Command
Map Bureau
1st Staff Cavalry Brigade, with
Armored Car Platoon
Motorized Anti-tank Platoon
2nd Staff Cavalry Brigade, with
Motorcycle Messanger Platoon
1st, 2nd & 22nd Cavalry Brigades, each with
Staff Company, with
Signals Platoon
2 Cavalry Battalions, each with
3 Squadrons, each with
l2 Light MG's
1 Heavy Squadron, with
8 Heavy MG's
4 Medium Trench Mortars
1 Horse Drawn Anti-Tank Platoon, with
2 Pak 37mm AT guns
1 Close Support Squadron, with
6 Light Infantry Support Guns
1 Motorized Heavy Squadron, with
1 Armored Car Platon
1 Pioneer Platoon
1 Anti-tank Platoon, with
2 Pak 37mm AT Guns
1 Motorized Light Cavalry Column
21st Cavalry Regiment, with
Staff Company, with
Motorized Signals Platoon
1 Cavalry Battalion, with
3 Squadrons, each with
l2 Light MG's
1 Heavy Squadron, with
8 Heavy MG's
4 Medium Trench Mortars
1 Horse Drawn Anti-Tank Platoon, with
2 Pak 37mm AT guns
1 Heavy Squadron
2 Close Support Platoons, each with
4 Light Infantry Support Guns
1 Armored Car Platon
1 Motorized Anti-tank Platoon, with
2 Pak 37mm AT Guns
1 Horse Drawn Light Cavalry Column
1st Horse Artillery Regiment, with
Staff Company,
Motorized Staff Battery
3 Horse Artillery Batteries, each with
3 Horse Batteries
1 Motorized Battery (105mm lFH 18)
1st Bicycle Battalion
Staff Company,
2
Signals Platoon
Armored Car Platoon
Motorized Pioneer Platoon
3 Bicycle Squadrons, each with
3 Squadrons, each with
9 Light MG's
4 Heavy MG's
3 Light Trench Mortars
1 Heavy Squadron, with
1 Anti-tank Platoon
2 Pak 37mm AT Guns
2 Close Support Platoons, with
2 Light Infantry Support Guns
Mortar Platoon, with
6 Medium Trench Mortars
1 Motorized Recoiless Rifle Battery
40th Motorized Panzerjäger (Anti-Tank) Battalion, with
3 Anti-tank Companies, each with
l2 Pak 37mm AT Guns
40th Motorized Pioneer Battalion, with
3 Pioneer Companies
1 Bridging Column "T"
1 Light Pioneer Column
86th Motorized Signals Battalion, with
1 Motorized Radio Company
1 Motorized Telephone Company
1 Motorized Light Signals Column
40th Quartermaster General Division, with
3 Motorized Columns
5 Horse Drawn Columns
2 Motorized Operations Material Columns
1 Motorized Repair Shop Company
1 Motorized Quartermaster Company
40th Administrative Services
1 Motorized Bakery Company
1 Motorized Butcher Company
1 Division Commissary Column
40th Medical Service
2 Motorized Medical Companies
3 Ambulance Platoons
40th Veterinary Service
2 Veterinary Companies
2 Motorized Horse Transportation Companies
Other:
40th Motorized Military Police Troop
40th Field Post Office.
Mueller-Hillebrand, B., Das Heer l933-l945, Frankfurt am mein,
l956 Vol I & II, Verband der Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und
Waffen SS l939-l945
Copyright GFN 1992

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 4:02 p.m. PST

Many thanks TT. I think I founds soemthing like that too on Nafziger. So 12 LMG per squadron, I guess that adds up to 3 troops of 4 squads, maybe? Which fits with Anatoli's briefing.. THe AC platoon would be a good weapons option too..

(Stolen Name)02 Dec 2012 5:42 p.m. PST

Yes the AC would be good dunno if they are 6-Rads or 221/2's?
Mind you captured Panhards would look nice

Leadgend02 Dec 2012 6:37 p.m. PST

I've got a detailed Reiter list covering the EW period for the Cavalry Brigade and Division. post your email address and I'll send you a copy.

(Stolen Name)02 Dec 2012 6:57 p.m. PST

Hi Leadgend wot arm'd cars did they use?

Leadgend02 Dec 2012 9:05 p.m. PST

The Regimental armoured cars only had MG so I assume SdKfz221. The recon battalion added for Barbarossa seems to be the same as for a panzer division, ie the usual mix of 221/222/223/231(8rad). SdKfz231(6rad) don't seem to have been used after France. See Niehorster link

Just where any Kfz13 were used is unclear, I suspect the two armoured cars in the Infantry division recon battalion is a likely location.

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 11:14 p.m. PST

Thanks leadgend.. I bought David Dorondo's "Riders of the Apocolypse: German Cavalry and Modern Warfare 1870-1945" yesterday.. While you need to read it cloely to get information to ToE for 1st Cavalry at Barbarossa there is an interesting section which states that a lessons learned report from the France campaign stated that "the reconnaisance element posessed insufficient personnel, cross country speeed and unifirmity of equipment. Comprised of a collectgion of horse and bycycle mounted troopers, motorised and horse drawn vehicles, it showed itself insufficiently nimble and hard to manage". Its unclear if this had changed by July 1941, although in his analysis Dorondo refers to the "Armoured Recconaissance element" numerous times – suggesting a company of armoured cars only? Not very enlightening I'm afraid…

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 11:17 p.m. PST

BTW the report he refers to is Kurzer Bericht uber Auftrage der XXIV Pz. Korps in der zeit vom 22.6.-30,6,1941, NARA Microfilm Publication T-315, Roll 82, FRames 80-87.

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 11:25 p.m. PST

Apologies, re-reading that section its clear that this report is an AAR from the first stage of Barbarossa – so looks like the recce battalion was a mix of armoured cars, mounted recconaisance troopers (Spahtruppreiter he calls them), bycycle troops amd horse drawn and motorised heavy weapons… Sorry about the typos – lost my specs!

Archeopteryx Inactive Member02 Dec 2012 11:58 p.m. PST

Leadgend many thnaks! … not too keen on dropping my email address but you can find me on Skype at "jamesafrica" if that works? I'll send you my email via an IM.

TT Panhards sound good don't they – I belive they were issued to police units on security details, so might be good as a support option for the 1942 Cavalry Brigade formed by Army Group Centre for anti-partisan work..??

(Stolen Name)03 Dec 2012 4:12 p.m. PST

The Germans were not long to realize the usefulness in combat of the Panhard P178. Seen as technically rated over the average armored cars, notably over the SdKfz 222 series, they were immediately put back to service during the campaign of France with German crosses.
About 190 P178 armored cars were used unmodified in 1941 with 107 lost in action on the Eastern front during following years. At the beginning of Barbarossa, beside Waffen-SS units such as "Totenkopf" or "Das Reich" and police units, the PSW-204(f) was mainly found in the 37th (7.PzD) and 92nd (20.PzD) armored reconnaissance battalions. 64 vehicles in the 37th (10 more than in theory) and 54 vehicles in the 92th with generally 18 radio variants. The Panhard 178 was the vehicle that went the closer to Moscow, they reached the terminal bus station.
In the secondary security tasks several exemplars were put on railway cars in armored trains (such as Panzerzug 25) to protect the lines. Later 43 were transformed in true "draisine", mostly to operate on rail-roads against partisans in the Balkans. After the invasion of the "Free Zone" in November 1942 more Panhard P178s had been captured, most of these were twin-MG variants. There were also an undetermined number of P178s fitted with the CDM turret (version with the 47mm SA35 gun) found in hidden depots. At least 2 were used in the Sicherung Aufklärungsabteilung 1000 (affiliated to 89.ID). They fought against partisans in Auvergne. The 1st Army for example still had 10 Panhard P178 on 30th December 1944 on the Western front.
Command Panhard P178s with a casemate instead of a turret and two radios were also captured in France, some kept their former role but most were given to PK (Propaganda Kompanie) units, often issued to war correspondents of the Waffen-SS ("Das Reich" and "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"). Armed with a MG34 and equipped with a German radio set, these vehicles were also equipped with cameras and sound recordings equipments.
During Summer 1943, several Panhard P178s were rearmed with a 5.0cm KwK L/42 gun installed in a superstructure unarmored to the rear. A few Panhard P178s were rearmed with a 5.0cm KwK L/60 gun but fitted with the muzzle brake from a Pak38.
In June 1943 the situation is grossly the following : • Eastern Front Heeresgruppe A : 6 Renault B2 Heeresgruppe Süd : 12 Panhard P178 Heeresgruppe Mitte : 15 Hotchkiss H39, 2 Somua S35, 18 Panhard P178 Südosten (Balkans) : 96 Hotchkiss H39, 43 Somua S35, 17 Renault B2 • Western Front 149 Hotchkiss H39 67 Somua S35 81 Renault B2 58 Renault R35 12 Renault FT17/18 33 Panhard P178

reproduced in part from the wonderful work of David Lehmann

Leadgend03 Dec 2012 8:24 p.m. PST

Archeopteryx, I am not on skype, I am on the official BF FOW forums as Leadgend though so maybe you could PM me there?

The first and second waves of Infantry divisions had a recon battalion with a company each of Cavalry and Bicycle troops and a couple of guns and armoured cars in the battalion HQ, most of the rest only had the bicycle troops.

Leadgend03 Dec 2012 8:48 p.m. PST

Looks like I was right about the Kfz13 being used for Infantry division recon battalions. link

Also with Cavalry regiments. link

Archeopteryx Inactive Member05 Dec 2012 10:28 a.m. PST

Hi Leadgend – yes im registered on the BF FoW forum as "James" – been registered for years but have never posted!

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