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"Kickstarter Goodies" Topic

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Kelroy was here30 Nov 2012 1:54 p.m. PST

I've added a blog entry telling how I've been sucked into Kickstarter, and what games/miniatures I've received so far.

Take a look, if you're interested in Kickstarter.



Huscarle30 Nov 2012 3:01 p.m. PST

Kickstarter & Indiegogo can be a bit of a runaway snowball. I've received my goodies from Morland Studios & Stonehaven miniatures so far. At least 3 more to arrive sometime next year. I'm studiously avoiding KS & its brethren as much as I can, purely for the sanity of my dwindling bank account.

Rogzombie Fezian30 Nov 2012 3:48 p.m. PST

Its really hard to find these projects, I never even heard of one you had on there. I've seen plenty that are over before I have a chance. This stuff is as fragmented as the miniature world.

TMP used to have everything but now some people are refusing to post here and I dont have time for a dozen forums. Its too bad, some of this stuff probably dies or could have done much better with better advertising.

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian Inactive Member30 Nov 2012 4:03 p.m. PST

Very true, Rogzombie. Kickstarter in particular is hard to search, and some companies are bafflingly inept at publicizing their own projects, eg these guys:

TMP link

Doesn't help that there's no single appropriate spot to post announcements for things that do catch one's eye given the multitude of message boards here, a "Crowdfunding Projects" would be a helpful addition for that sort of thing.

Mr Elmo30 Nov 2012 4:16 p.m. PST

I've been wondering recently: do Crowdfunded Projects result in less sales after general release?

You would think that most people who wanted something would get in on the KS. Who is left to buy?

Meiczyslaw30 Nov 2012 4:25 p.m. PST

I've been wondering recently: do Crowdfunded Projects result in less sales after general release?

If you do them right, it shouldn't matter.

Think about a batch of minis: the kickstarter should pay for the mold, lead, and design, and should have mold(s) left over after shipping out the rewards. At that point, you've got the mini available for sale on your web site, and anything you sell after the kickstart is profit.

Not pure profit, assuming you want to make replacement molds, but close to it.

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian Inactive Member30 Nov 2012 5:05 p.m. PST

If you do them right, it shouldn't matter.

But it does matter for retailers. If you've sold direct through Kickstarter to a large percentage of your customer base, there won't be very many people left looking for what you've made. That's something that distributor purchase agents very definitely think about, and if distributors aren't carrying you, most stores aren't going to be either.

Now, some manufacturers do fine without being in the distribution net GZG and Old Glory both spring to mind. OTOH, for a small startup company that wants to grow rapidly, the exposure you get from being in stores is very important. Some Kickstarter projects include "retailer" pledge levels at wholesale rates and quantities to encourage stores to back them and carry the product. Many (surprisingly many) don't, and I think that's a major mistake.

Look at Wyrd's Malifaux RPG spinoff as an example. My FLGS would happily back it, but no retailer pledge level means he has to wait for the distributors to pick it up. That'll probably happen they do buy Kickstarted stuff if they expect it to sell well enough (eg Zombicide) but the FLGS will order fewer than they would have through the KS because they'll get it relatively late and most of the sales will already have vanished. End result may not immediately be fewer sales, but it will result in somewhat lower exposure and therefore lower sales in the long run.

A KS that isn't picked up by distribution is even worse off – you sell a bunch to your backers, and never get into stores at all. How much that costs you you'll probably never know.

Meiczyslaw30 Nov 2012 5:16 p.m. PST

Rich --

Thanks for the response. I don't think we really disagree, but your example does add a different ultimate objective to the conversation, and is probably more what Mr. Elmo was talking about.

CraigH Inactive Member30 Nov 2012 8:51 p.m. PST

As far as after KS sales go…I'm sure I'm not the only one who has bought in at the minimum level to get any "exclusives" and will follow up with a regular purchase if and when it becomes "real".

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian Inactive Member30 Nov 2012 9:47 p.m. PST

Thanks for the response. I don't think we really disagree, but your example does add a different ultimate objective to the conversation, and is probably more what Mr. Elmo was talking about.

Agreed – I'm just pointing out that the surge in crowdfunding is potentially game-changing (literally) for the industry in the long term. What works well for startup companies and backers may not always be good for traditional retailers and distributors, or for larger companies trying to do certain types of projects. There are lots of viewpoints and interests involved beyond the obvious creator-backer pairing.

I talk to my FLGS owner a lot, and there's quite a bit of concern about where things are going, particularly at the distributor level. Some people think it's nothing but great, and the distributors are dinosaurs whose day has come. Others wonder how much money is going to wind up going to direct sales and never reach the local stores because of crowdfunding. Direct sales has been a bugbear with stores for years – GW is widely perceived as deliberately attempting to steal business from stores for their website at every turn, for ex, and Privateer Press consciously skips on selling most items through their own site to help keep on the good side of the distributors and stores. Crowdfunding projects that don't offer stores some kind of wholesale buy-in option can leave stores feeling completely left out in the cold – and even a fairly proactive store has a hard time tracking and backing everything that's out there.

Mr Elmo01 Dec 2012 6:36 a.m. PST

Here is an example:

I got the Super Dungeon Explore KS. This means a store did not get my $70 USD
I may buy the expansion, that would give the store $40 USD, quite a bit less than potenially $110 USD

For me, I was going to buy SDE anyway, and the KS keeps money away from the stores.

Kelroy was here01 Dec 2012 2:06 p.m. PST

Here's what I wrote on my blog: "The thing I like most about Kickstarter is that I'm able to help "the little guy" gaming companies. Most miniatures manufacturers are not Hasbro or Milton Bradley in terms of finances. Even SJG and Reaper are small fish compared to "real" game companies."

That being said, I don't think any of the Kickstarters I've backed, with the exception of SJG, are items I will see in the local store (and OGRE is aimed at a very specific audience). I've already bought scads of Reaper Minis, but the chance to get so many in one go was too good to pass up. I stand by my statement that I'm helping products get made that otherwise might not.

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