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"Tie Defender Stats and Points Calc Discussion - X-Wing" Topic


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Mako1129 Nov 2012 7:54 p.m. PST

See the following links for unofficial X-Wing stats for the Tie Defender, and conjectural discussions on how point values are calculated for X-Wing:

link

Discussion on point calcs:

link

Ghostrunner30 Nov 2012 9:34 a.m. PST

8 Shields?

Sorry, but that's a little over the top.

3 or 4 should be the max for any fighter-sized vessel, not only from a 'logic' standpoint, but also from a gameplay standpoint.

At some point, there is likely to be a mechanism that allows shields to regenerate (aside from R2-D2).

If it comes along, and the TIED/D has access to it, this thing would be about unstoppable.

Grumpy Monkey30 Nov 2012 11:14 a.m. PST

I agree with the shield statement, I agree with it being 3 or 4.

Mako1130 Nov 2012 3:30 p.m. PST

Nope, 8 shields is spot on for 200 SBD, which is the rating for the Tie Defender.

An X-Wing has 50 SBD for 2 shields in X-Wing, and a Y-Wing has 75 SBD for 3 shields, so the math is really quite simple.

I didn't design the fighter, I just formulated the values based upon the conjectural X-Wing points formula.

Personal logo nazrat Supporting Member of TMP30 Nov 2012 4:54 p.m. PST

You speak of this like those SBD (silent but deadly?) numbers actually MEAN anything. They are made-up stats for make-believe ships in a make-believe universe. The simple fact is this: the way you have laid out the numbers makes the TIE Defender utterly unplayable within the mechanics of the game of X-Wing.

Ghostrunner30 Nov 2012 11:50 p.m. PST

On the other forum you say there were two values for shields. One would have 'converted' to 4, the other to 8.

You go on to say you picked the 8 value.

Make it 4, and someone might be willing to play test it with you.

Leave it at 8, and it's right up there with the Fanboy Boba Fett incarnations that have him beating Darth Vader in hand to hand combat.

Just saying.

Mako1101 Dec 2012 4:12 a.m. PST

4 might work, since I noticed the Falcon only gets 5 shields, and is rated at 264 SBD.

May need to go with 4 on the agility too, since the A-Wing base, if the prototype is correctly shown, only rates a 3 for Defense.

4 shield points sure cuts into the invincibility of the fighter though, as compared to others, since it's only half the rating of what it should be.

Might need to bump up the hull to a 4 to compensate for that a bit, since it appears the Ties are over-rated in comparison to the Rebel fighters. Perhaps that's due in part to their maneuverability, and not wanting to make the Defense value too high.

Supposedly, a Tie Defender is roughly twice as maneuverable as a standard Tie, or Advanced Tie Fighter, based upon its rating of 175 DPF (whatever that stands for), as compared to the 96 and 90 DPF respectively, for the Tie and Tie Adv.

By my calculations, when compared to the X-Wing, Ties should only get 2 hull points, instead of 3, since their hulls are rated at around 14 RU, compared to the 20 of the X-Wing.

Of course, then you'd need 3 x Ties to match one X-Wing, and I imagine they didn't want that many fighter minis in the box sets, so upped their hull points to offset that a bit.

Toshach Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Dec 2012 8:05 p.m. PST

From what I see of the game rating so far is that they do not always equate to the number ratings. For example, a TIE with two laser cannons has an attack rating of 2, yet a an X-Wing with four laser cannons has an attack rating of only three.

Also, the comparison diagram found in "The Art of Star Wars" shows the X-Wing, Y-wing, and TIE as all having the same speed. Yet th eTIE fighter is faster in the game.

The same source also shows the TIE-I being about 25% faster than the previous three and the A-wing 25% faster still. Yet it looks like the TIE-I and the A-wing will have the same speed.

Basically, the stats should be scaled to fit the game dynamic.

Mako1101 Dec 2012 8:59 p.m. PST

Yea, depends upon the source, variant, etc.

I've seen the Ties listed as the same speed as the X-Wing and Y-Wing, but also slightly faster (all at around 100 MGLT, based upon sources). Tie Adv is definitely slightly faster, at 105 MGLT, and the Tie Interceptor at about 120 – 125 MGLT. I've seen the A-Wing listed as both 120 MGLT and 150 MGLT (not sure why the large discrepency there).

Y-Wing has also been listed as 80 MGLT.

Tie Defender is the fastest of all, at 155 MGLT.

Mako1102 Dec 2012 3:40 p.m. PST

So, after comments from others, and comparisons to other fighters and ships in Wave 2, here's my proposal for the Tie Defender:

Attack = 3

Defense = 4

Hull = 4 (since shields need to be dumbed down to make the fighter playable with others in the game, this stat gets a bump. With a 20 RU hull, its armor is as robust as an X-Wings, which has a rating of 3. Increasing its Hull rating of 4, to account for the loss of half of what its shield rating should be seems a reasonable alternative, at least to me)

Shields = 4

The combined Hull and Shield rating above gives it about 60% of the protection of the Millenium Falcon, in both X-Wing, and from stats found on the internet, in independent sources.

Clearly, with those ratings, it is a formidable space superiority fighter.

Points costs, without upgrades is 33, not including any special weapons, abilities, or even a pilot.

Only Skill 7 pilots, or above may use this fighter, making the true basic fighter cost 40 – 42, depending upon the pilots' skill (e.g. 7 – 9).

Fixed forward Ion Cannons cost 2 points (5 for the Y-Wing with a 360 degree arc, so 2 points for the 90 degree forward arc seems reasonable to me).

Other special weapons costs and skills are per those available to the Empire (and Proton Torps of the Rebels). Can be fitted with Concussion Missiles, or Proton Torpedoes. Can also be fitted with a Tractor Beam (see below).

Not sure on the points cost, or ability of the Tractor Beam, but suggest we try Range 2 (supposedly its range is limited), can only be used for a short time before recharging (two turns, perhaps, and then off for 2 turns, before use again?), permits the Tie-D to keep the targeted starfighter from moving at all in the next two turns (if hit, the targeted spacefighter must remain in place – 75% chance of that happening, e.g. to be on target with the tractor beam, and no chance for the targeted vessel to evade (simplistic rules option). Or, optionally, 3 x attempts to use it [using 3 Red Attack Dice – everything but blanks work], and targeted fighter gets to roll Evade dice, as usual, to try to keep from being targeted. Once entrapped, no further evade rolls are permitted). Does no permanent damage to a target. Use of the Tractor Beam doesn't count as an action, so the Tie Defender may also fire on the fighter targeted by the Tractor Beam, regardless of whether it is effective, or not. Due to the power required to employ the Tractor Beam, power to the Tie Defender's shields is reduced by Two Points, when it is in use. Points cost = 5, so similar to the Ion Cannon for the Rebels.

So, for 50 points, you can produce a nice, heavily armed fighter. That works well, since they usually work in pairs, so two for a 100 point force should be interesting vs. what the Rebels can field against it.

Clearly, the Tie Defender is the ultimate space superiority fighter of its time.

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