"Are Zouaves in the FPW and ACW light or line infantry?? ?" Topic

Are they trilled to fight in open order or not?
In the fpw?
In the ACW?

Please help

In the ACW they were just infantry in a fancy uniform. All troops were capable of skirmishing and forming a firing line.

Zouaves were French light infantry regiments. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zouave They were also considered elite troops. That changed after 1871, however.

For the FPW I say they would be line. Actually, by 1870 all infantry was trained in light infantry tactics, so there was really no difference between the normal line troops and the jaegers/chassuers, other than status.

In "They Died For Glory" FPW rules the Zouaves and Turcos get an advantage in melee. But otherwise are treated as line infantry. Defiantly not light infantry.

In the ACW the fancy uniforms were meant to help with recruiting, esprit de corps and morale. I have not seen any ACW rules which give them any bonuses. They are usually treated like any other unit.

That is not to say an ACW Zouave or Chassuer unit couldn't be an elite or crack outfit but the rating should be based on more than a fancy uniform.

In 1870 Turcos /Zouaves are higher morale than regular line troops but otherwise the same being organized in regiments. Chassuer Bn have more hit points and act alone or attach to a regiment.

FPW Chassuers were the light infantry units of the French Army and were organized differently from line units. In TDFG the basing is totally different from other units. But by 1870 all French infantry had the ability to skirmish. The Chassuers were better trained for it. Same weapons.

German Jagers were organized like the line units and the only difference are the uniforms. German line units could skirmish just as well. In that period you tend to keep infantry in skirmish most of the time except when charging into melee. At least that is how it works in TDFG.

IMHO any infantry unit in the ACW can skirmish. I never heard of any specific light infantry in the ACW. IMHO A.P. Hill's "Light" Division was not really light infantry in the truest sense of the word. Although you might make the argument that the entire ANV was light infantry.

Dear all, thanks so far for the answers,

My Qs was rather short due to a server problem yersterday.

I know that differant rules rate them in really fantastic ways…. But i was hoping to recieve more infos. I have TDFG and i amnot convinced.

What i have read so far is that the Turcos of the French in algeria were light troops trilled in " indipended ranger combat". Meaning they cloud operate in skirmish line but could also operate indipended in the sense of the US ranger handbook from the rogers rangers.

I dont think that any US Zoave units had this high standart of indipendence … Otherwise would it not needed to raise the USSS? I can here be completly off but between the french source material and the american litrature is here a real gab.

I have serious doupts if by 1970 all infrantry was trained al light infranty… I made many battlefield tour to st.privat and gravelotte and that is not what the location of the musketier\ fussilier and the sites of the jaeger graves indicate. …. I think we have to make a differance between the command to load and fire lying, which is possible for breechloader and really trainded als light troops.
I could here also be completly off..

I was trained by the german army as jaeger in a special training for 6 week to fight ranger combat and i was a reenactor of a british flank company and i can tell you that the open order of a jaeger and a flankeur are differant things.

Were im pretty sure of is the high grade of indipendence and training of the chasseurs and the prussian Jaegers in 1870 they are a good example of light troops who can fight indipended in oper order away from other units.

So here cames the question again: are french zouaves light troops?

Thank you all so much for helping here as this is a tricky one…

Thanks!
Greetings and have fun

Good question Rudi,

I do not know the answer, but it is a question that I have also asked myself. I have only been studying the Franco Prussian war for a few months but I tend to believe the following.

The word light in the title means nothing, in the Napoleonic Wars some trained British Lights skirmished very well but ordinary light companies often bunched up and were inferior to their French opposites through lack of training.

French and Prussian line were able to put forward skirmish screens but certainly in the French army the level of training seems not to have been very special. ( I am basing this on Leonce Patry writing of his experience as a regular officer pre 1870.)

Following Paddy Griffiths writings on the topic; French Light Regts were trained and regarded themselves as an elite apart from the rest of the Infantry.

The Turcos by experience and training were light Infantry.

All of which brings me no nearer to deciding about zouaves, if pushed I would say they were nearer to shock troops than skirmishers but that is an opinion of no substance at all.

John

ACW troops were trained with such manuals as Hardee's Rifle and Light Infantry Tactics, which included …light infantry tactics. This book was inspired by French manuals and tactics of the time. It doesn't mean that all troops were efficient to do it, but all had at least a basic training for it.

In their foreign campaigns (Italy, Crimea, Mexico, etc) French Zouaves were renowned for good fightings on very difficult terrain, which they learned to do in Algeria. I would consider that it gives them all advantages of light troops if they need to.

In the ACW certainly they should just be normal infantry, rated poor or good, depending on the unit/time frame. The Zouaves from the FPW had the Algerian experience and so might have some claim to different status. The troops in the ACW would have had no different training than any of their other infantry. So yes, in the ACW, just fancy uniforms.

The French Chasseurs and their training were seen, from about the 1830s on through the ACW as the 'new thing' in infantry training. Their reputation was mostly derived from their Colonial activities. One reason for the 'Zouave-like' uniform of the Chasseurs and the baggy pants sported by the French army afterwards. The 'Zouave' uniform was popular among the pre-Civil War militia units and such units as the "Fire Zouaves" performed martial drills as entertainment based on the French Chasseur manual.

The question is what were the expectations in combat for ACW and European infantry in the last half of the 19th Century?

From 1859 on, all infantry, European and American, were expected to skirmish when called on, and they did. Obviously, some units and nations did it better than others, but the expectations were universal. As someone else noted, by 1870 most all infantry combat was skirmish combat. The Prussian doctrine was basically built around a skirmish line.

In the ACW all infantry were light infantry, using light infantry manuals of tactics (thus the use of the hunting horn as the emblem for infantry). Some of the early zouave regiments, however, copied the tactics of the zouaves in the French Army, involving loading and firing while prone, and other "fancy" maneuvers.

I recall reading a report by Lew Wallace, some years ago, about the assault on Fort Donaldson. He made reference to a unit of Zouaves using the Zouave Drill. They would go prone and wait for their opposites to fire over their heads, then rise to advance/fire while they were reloading. Of course he may have just made it up as practice for writing Ben Hur.

I've not seen any other reference to a special drill in the Civil War and wish I could find a link to that report.

Well, will wonders never cease. (wonderful internet)

the link is link

And the paragraph I recall is…

Riding to my old regiments-the 8th Missouri and the 11th Indiana--I asked them if they were ready. They demanded the word of me. Waiting a moment for Morgan L. Smith to light a cigar, I called out, "Forward it is, then!" They were directly in front of the ascent to be climbed. Without stopping for his supports, Colonel Smith led them down into a broad hollow, and catching sight of the advance, Cruft and Ross also moved forward. As the two regiments began the climb, the 8th Missouri slightly in the lead, a line of fire ran along the brow of the height. The flank companies cheered while deploying as skirmishers. Their Zouave practice proved of excellent service to them. Now on the ground, creeping when the fire was hottest, running when it slackened, they gained ground with astonishing rapidity, and at the same time maintained a fire that was like a sparkling of the earth. For the most part the bullets aimed at them passed over their heads and took effect in the ranks behind them. Colonel Smith's cigar was shot off close to his lips. He took another and called for a match. A soldier ran and gave him one. "Thank you. Take your place now. We are almost up," he said, and, smoking, spurred his horse forward. A few yards from the crest of the height the regiments began loading and firing as they advanced. The defenders gave way. On the top there was a brief struggle, which was ended by Cruft and Ross with their supports.

By 1870 how many actual Africans were in the Turcos and Zouaves? I have seen contemporary photographs and paintings which show white troops to be the majority. Were they European French who migrated to Algeria?

That is an excellent find by Tailsman. These tactics may work well against muzzle loading muskets but by 1870 with modern bolt action rifles, early machine guns and breech loading artillery on the battlefield, a lot of those tactics would be much less effective.

The distinctions between light, rifle and grenadier infantry were already beginning to blur. Tactics are an adaption to weapon technology. All infantry units began to fight in looser and looser formations. Those that would not adapt paid the price.

As far as my reading of the War of 1870 goes, Turcos were composed of Muslims from Algeria. Zouaves were French troops that fought as part of the L'Armee d'Afrique which made up Marshal Patrice MacMahon's 1st Corps during the Franco-Prussian War.

I'd allow the Zouaves to be elite light infantry. But the rule system I'm using Chassepot and Needlegun doesn't have skirmishing in it. So I haven't worried about it. They Died For Glory allows any infantry battalion to automatically go into skirmish line if a player desires.

I think the Chasseurs a pied and Jaegers would naturally have a better ability to skirmish in open order or defending obstacles/terrain. Chassepot and Needlegun gives Jagers/Chasseurs a pied better close combat abilities when they defending in wood as opposed to the open. Both Chassepot and Needlegun and TDFG give Turcos and Zouaves better hand to hand abilities than the average French or Prussian line infantry. As far as Zouaves in the American Civil War, I guess it would depend on the scenario and a particular unit how well they skirmished in open order.

That's my two cents,
Blake

By 1870 how many actual Africans were in the Turcos and Zouaves?

It seems that from the 1840s the Zouaves were French living in Algeria, some others coming from France, and Algerian Jews. Muslims enlisted in the Turcos ("Tirailleurs algériens") with French officers.

Lew Wallace was originally the colonel of the 11th Indiana, a zouave regiment (although its uniforms were only semi-zouave).

It was my understanding that the original zouaves (or Zouaves) of the French army were native North Africans, thus the exotic uniform style, but later made up of French and/or French colonists.

Zouaves were French colonists (Pied Noirs) and Turcos were North African natives. Officers for both would be heavily metropolitan French.

So expect the Zouaves to be white and the Turcos a variety of colors, most of them light-skinned.

The uniform was based loosely on Turkish uniforms.

Why would French colonials want to dress like the "natives"?

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I believe in TDFG, Jeagers and Chassuers do not pay a penalty for moving through woods.

Why would French colonials want to dress like the "natives"?

Why did Americans want to dress like North Africans and French Algerians?

Because it was the cool thing to do. Zouaves existed in America a decade before the ACW. They were not in the army. They traveled the country putting on drill meets. They would often compete against other military units. Very popular at the time.

Rallynow,

First raised in 1841 as battalions of Tirailleurs Indigenes, the locally recruited Algerian infantry were organised into three regiments of Algerian Tirailleurs (aka Turcos) by a French Imperial Decree.

The origins of the Zouaves can be traced to the Zouaoua, a fiercely independent Kabyli tribe living in the rocky hills of Algeria and Morocco. In the summer of 1830 a number of Zouaoua tendered their services to the French colonial army, and in October of that year were organized into two battalions of auxiliaries. Over the following decade these Zouaves, as the French styled them, proved their valor in dozens of bloody desert encounters under the command of the intrepid General La Moriciere.

Although the Zouave units were increasingly comprised of native Frenchmen, their distinctive uniform remained a derivation of traditional North African dress: a short, collarless jacket; a sleeveless vest (gilet); voluminous trousers (serouel); 12-foot long woolen sash (ceinture); white canvas leggings (guetres); leather greaves (jambieres); and of course the tasseled fez (chechia) and turban (cheche).

In 1852, President Louis Napoleon, soon to become Emperor Napoleon III (of the Second French Empire), ordered the Zouaves restructured into three regiments of the regular French Army. They were now made up entirely of Frenchmen. Henceforth Algerians would be assigned to units of Algerian Tirailleurs, or Turcos as they were popularly known, and would wear their own distinctive light blue version of the Zouave uniform.

Algerian Tirailleurs served with great distinction in the Crimean War, the Franco-Austrian War (Italian campaign of 1859), the French Intervention in Mexico and the Franco-Prussian War (1870-1871), as well as in various French colonial campaigns in Tunisia, Indochina, Morocco, Madagascar and Algeria itself.

Recruitment was generally voluntary, although a selective form of conscription was introduced in Algeria in 1913 and continued until the end of French rule in North Africa.

OFFICERS OF ALGERIAN TIRAILLEURS (SECOND FRENCH EMPIRE)

During the Second Empire, most officers of the Algerian Tirailleurs were white Frenchmen, but not all of them.

A few native Algerians also became officers (see below).

The Algerian Tirailleurs were elite troops. They were ferocious soldiers, very well drilled and well disciplined. The Algerian Tirailleurs fought with incredible courage and tenacity against the Russians (Crimean War) and Austrians (Franco-Austrian War of 1859).

Napoleon III created a new battalion with the best of them. This battalion was integrated into the French Imperial Guard (attached to the Zouave Regiment of the Imperial Guard in 1866).

Take a look at some of them…

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Take a look at this thread (WITH 4 PAGES AND RUNNING), my own thread, for more info on the Algerian Tirailleurs (and lots of images): link

The Turcos and Zouaves were part of the 1st Corps (MacMahon's) and both fought with great distinction at Froeschwiller on August 6, 1870.

The account of the battle by G.F.R. Henderson is quite interesting and contains several accounts of actions during the battle by the Zouave and Turco regiments. They were noted for their shock value in several counterattacks, which drove back far superior Prussian and Bavarian forces each time. However, these units suffered heavily from Prussian artillery when withdrawing after being committed too far in the attacks.

Also, Henderson noted the superior skill the Zouaves and Turcos displayed in "woods fighting" where they would disperse and fight from tree-to-tree sniping the German infantry. The 3rd Zouaves alone single-handedly held up nearly the entire Pussian XI corps in the Niederwald forest for several hours while the rest of their division was in the process of extricating itself from being enveloped. They suffered huge casualties in the process, but inflicted large casualties and demoralized the XI corps troops for some time.

So, they basically served as both elite assault troops and has elite skirmishers I would say. Suffice it to say that the German troops were not excited to face them although they did finally overcome them at Froeschwiller and Sedan.

Kind regards,
Jon Cooley

Excellent post, jcooley!

In 1870, MacMahon's 1st Corps was the best corps in the entire French army.

Three regiments of Zouaves and three regiments of Algerian Tirailleurs held their ground against superior firepower and numbers at Wörth/Froeschwiller. These elite regiments fought like lions that day.

The Zouaves and Algerian Tirailleurs pushed back many German attacks. The Algerian Tirailleurs counter-attacked the enemy with the bayonet at least three times, pushing them back each time. This came at a high price…

In the afternoon, the Prussians had to repel repeated battalion-strength French counter-attacks. Captain Gebhard von Bismarck of the Prussian 21st Division called these bayonet charges "nightmarish". Already terrified by the volume of fire, the Prussians quailed at the ululations of the Algerian troops, who trilled and sang as they fired low into the floundering Prussians.

With the French right flank turned, the infantry divisions of Raoult and Ducrot were now hit in the flank and rear by accurate Prussian shelling and rifle fire. Some green French recruits panicked and fled. French veterans stood their ground.

Some elite French units, like the Zouave and Algerian Tirailleurs regiments, continued to fight valiantly, including the survivors of the 2nd Algerian Tirailleurs, who earned a record number of crosses of the Légion d'honneur (France's highest award) for conspicuous valor, multiple wounds, tenacious defense and the heroic rescue of comrades under fire. They kept a line of retreat open for other French units.

The 1st Zouaves was the last French regiment to leave the field, withdrawing under heavy fire as though on parade. Zouave and Algerian Tirailleur regiments suffered appalling casualties. The 3rd Zouaves lost 80% casualties. The 2nd Algerian Tirailleurs (aka Turcos) suffered 93% casualties!

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The 1st Algerian Tirailleurs lost 18 officers and 800 men at Wörth.

Clairon de Turcos blessé by Jules Monge

This painting depicts one of the counter-attacks made by the 1st Algerian Tirailleurs at Wöerth/Froeschwiller. The title is "Wounded bugler of Turcos".

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The 2nd Algerian Tirailleurs was virtually destroyed at Wöerth. Few soldiers in history ever fought with such courage and tenacity. All regiments of Zouaves and Algerian Tirailleurs fought with great courage at Wöerth, but the 2nd Algerian Tirailleurs was almost possessed!

The regiments of Algerian Tirailleurs and Zouaves didn't give up an inch of ground, even under the murderous artillery fire of the Krupp guns. They repulsed all infantry attacks made by the enemy and counter-attacked many times with the bayonet.

The regiment lost 2,650 officers and men out of 2,900!

At Wörth/Froeschwiller, the 2nd Tirailleurs Algeriens suffered 93% casualties! The Bavarians were expressing frustration in their own brutal way at the stiff resistance of Colonel Pierre Suzzoni's 2nd Algerian Tirailleur regiment. Holding the wooden salient below Froeschwiller against the best efforts of two German Corps, the Algerians simply would not yield. "We will all die here, if need be", Colonel Suzzoni had told his men in the morning, and most of them did. With 2,900 troops in the morning, the Algerians were reduced to a rump of 250 by the afternoon, enclosed, as one tirailleur put it, "in a circle of iron and fire." Suzzoni himself was killed by a shell splinter at 2:30 in the afternoon as were most of his officers. (The Franco-Prussian War – The German conquest of France in 1870-1871 by Geoffrey Wawro, page 131)

Captain Viénot (see below) was the highest ranking officer of the 2nd Tirailleurs left standing at the end of the battle. He organized the retreat of the regiment with only 250 officers and men.

Monument dedicated to the 2nd Algerian Tirailleurs (located near the site of the Battle of Wöerth)

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The 3rd Algerian Tirailleurs also fought very hard at Wörth/Froeschwiller.

Captain Deschamps was killed during the battle… When he was hit by a German bullet, a Sergeant was begging him to dismount from his horse, but Deschamps answered in Arabic: "The children of the desert do not obey a leader who dismounts before the enemy!"

Colonel Gandil (see below), the commanding officer of the 3rd Algerian Tirailleurs, lost 33 officers and 872 men at the Battle of Wörth.

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The 1st Zouaves at Wörth

Captain Minary of the 1st Zouaves

Veteran of the Crimean War (wounded at Malakoff), Franco-Austrian War (wounded at Solferino) and Mexican Intervention, Minary was promoted to Chef de Bataillon after the fight at Wörth. Unfortunately, he was killed two weeks after at Sedan

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Colonel Détrie (commander of the 2nd Zouaves in 1870)

Détrie was seriously wounded and captured by the enemy at Wörth. The 2nd Zouaves lost 47 officers and 1,088 men at this bloody battle.

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The 3rd Zouaves began the battle with 65 officers and 2,200 men. Only 24 officers and 415 men answered the roll call by nightfall.

Bellow… Ceremony that took place at Les Invalides (Paris) in 1911.

The standard-bearer is an officer of the 3rd French Zouaves and he's carrying the old standard/eagle of the regiment (what was left of it anyway). This standard saw battle at Wörth/Froeschwiller in 1870 and was regarded as a treasured relic by the French army.

The last two photos are larger than they appear on this site. Just copy and paste the HTML of the images and you'll see.

Do the same with this one…

I suspect that many Turcos serving in France were white Frenchmen. I also have many pictures of enlisted Turcos having their pictures taken and they are all white or racially
mixed enlisted types, not officers. All the Turco officer pictures I have are all white.

So maybe racially mixed units or one unit is all white and another unit all Native. Wasn't Algeria officially part of metropolitan France and didn't a large number of white Frenchmen settle there?

Many North Africans don't necessarily look non-white, especially in monochrome photographs. Turcos were local natives of Algerie and Maroc, in the same way that Tirailleurs Tonkinois and Tirailleurs Senegalais were locals from those areas; many Zouaves were Parisians.

Rallynow,

During the Second Empire… Privates and NCOs of Algerian Tirailleurs were all North Africans (mostly Algerians). The officers were mostly white Frenchmen (almost all of them), but a few, very few, Algerians became officers.

After the Second Empire, as far as I know all Turco officers were white Frenchmen. Privates and NCOs were North Africans.

Yes, you could find some racially mixed types serving in the Algerian Tirailleurs.

Algerians, together with Morrocans and Tunisians, formed the French Armée d'Afrique (French Army of Africa). The army also included French settlers doing their military service (Zouaves and Chasseurs d'Afrique) and non-French volunteers (French Foreign Legion).

White Frenchmen living in North Africa served in the Zouave or Chasseur d'Afrique regiments, never in the Algerian Tirailleurs. During the Second Empire (1852-1870), most of these Frenchmen volunteered to serve in the Zouave regiments and many of them were combat veterans in active duty (only the best were selected to join the Zouaves).

After 1871, Zouave regiments in North Africa were composed primarily of conscripts (all of them white Frenchmen doing their military service in North Africa). Having said that, these conscripts trained hard and did become good soldiers. All officers and NCOs were professional soldiers and many of them were combat veterans.

Recruitment to the Algerian Tirailleurs regiments was generally voluntary, although a selective form of conscription was introduced in Algeria in 1913 and continued until the end of French rule in North Africa.

Also, Chouan is correct… Some North Africans don't necessarily look non-white, especially in monochrome photographs.

Some North Africans don't necessarily look non-white.

This is especially true for people of "Kabyle" ancestry.

Why did Americans want to dress like North Africans and French Algerians?

Because by then the Crimean War had made the zouaves of the French Army famous. However, as Cuirassier points out: While zouave regiments in the French Army EVENTUALLY became full of French colonials and even European Frenchmen, they were ORIGINALLY recruited from North African tribesmen. Which was my point. That is, that only AFTER the native North Africans established the zouave regiments' elite status did Europeans want to join them.

donlowry,

That's true, however…

Zouave regiments, with North Africans in their ranks, were well-known and respected before the Crimean War, but…

Their reputation as excellent and fierce soldiers (the elite status) grew during the Crimean War. By then, Zouave regiments were made of Frenchmen.

The Franco-Austrian War (Italian campaign of 1859) confirmed the Zouave regiments' elite status (with only Frenchmen in their ranks).

French Zouaves, with only Frenchmen in their ranks, fought like lions and distinguished themselves during the Crimean War and Franco-Austrian War of 1859, and because of that they became really famous around the world in the 1850s and 1860s. They frequently appeared in magazines and newspapers of that time, always in heroic scenes, always displaying the Zouaves' incredible courage and exotic uniform.

Their excellent performance at Alma, Mamelon Vert, Malakoff, Palestro, Magenta and Solferino, fighting against Russians and Austrians, fighting against European powers, truly established the Zouave regiments' elite status and their excellent fighting reputation before the world.

Most Frenchmen that joined the Zouave regiments in the 1850s and early 1860s were professional and experienced soldiers (many of them with extensive combat experience). Some of them were highly decorated even before joining the Zouave regiments.

The Zouave regiments of 1870 had much more recruits in their ranks (soldiers with little or no combat experience). They were volunteers by the way. Those soldiers were very well drilled and were eager to prove their courage in battle (their morale was very high). That's exactly what they did… With a core of veteran and highly decorated officers and NCOs, they fought with unbelievable tenacity and great skill against the Germans.

"The Zouave regiments of 1870 had much more recruits in their ranks (soldiers with little or no combat experience)."

Explaining it better…

The Zouave regiments of 1870 had a considerable number of trained privates with little or no combat experience.

The rest of the paragraph is perfect… :-)

Those soldiers were very well drilled and were eager to prove their courage in battle (their morale was very high). That's exactly what they did… With a core of veteran and highly decorated officers and NCOs, they fought with unbelievable tenacity and great skill against the Germans.

Btw… Take a look at these rare photos of French Zouaves (taken just before the war against Austria in 1859).

The photos are actually larger than they appear on this site. Just copy and paste the HTML of the images and you'll see.

The best of the best…

The Zouaves of the French Imperial Guard.

Again, the photos are actually larger than they appear on this site. Just copy and paste the HTML of the images and you'll see.

These photos of the Zouave Regiment of the French Imperial Guard were taken in 1857.

These Guard Zouaves of 1857 were mostly veterans of the Crimean War and perhaps a few colonial campaigns, and many of them were awarded with the cross of the Légion d'honneur and/or the Médaille Militaire for bravery (take a look at their medals).

One more…

French Guard Zouaves in 1857

Excellent pics Cuirassier!

Why would French colonials want to dress like the "natives"?

There was a fashion of exotic dress in the mid-19th and late 19th century, and a fascination for Middle East (and Far East) adventures and explorers.

Also this uniform was probably considered more "Turkish" style than properly North African native.

Thank you, Patrice.

Why would French colonials want to dress like the "natives"?

Because the Zouaves were fierce and much respected soldiers. They were considered true warriors and many Frenchmen would like to have the same status.

Their acts of bravery and feats of arms during the Crimean War became known around the globe. The name "Zouave" was a household name in every corner of the world.

Zouaves were the most famous soldiers in the world in the 1850s and 1860s. They frequently appeared in magazines and newspapers of that time, always in heroic scenes, always displaying the Zouaves' incredible courage and their exotic uniform.

Patrice is correct… The Zouave uniform caught the imagination of many people around the world.

Why indeed? However, look at British cavalry officers of the Indian army.
link

Returning to the original query…All troops that had fought in Mexico had apparently become used to a more open deployment than those who had fought only in the Crimea and Italy. However, all at some time, EXCEPT chasseurs, are recorded as advancing in attack column in certain circumstances, and digging in in others – the 2 marks of 'normal' French infantry of the day. These are also actions unthinkable for true light troops. Therefore I have concluded that in no way were either Turcos or Zouaves what previous decades called 'light' troops. I would be fascinated to hear if there is anything to the contrary in the written record.

If those two photos are any indication, it would appear that, although no Frenchmen served as other ranks or NCOs in the turcos,at least some North Africans served in the Zouaves of the Guard.

All Zouaves of the Guard were Frenchmen.

Those photos were taken after 3 weeks of maneuvering, parading and marching at the Châlons Camp, under the inclement sun of the summer of 1857. They used to cut their hair in the same manner as the Algerians. So… Even the white Frenchmen in the rank and file of the Zouaves of the French Imperial Guard developed an "north-african look" to them.

Some of them were born in Algeria having at least one parent who was a French citizen ("white Frenchman"). You can find some racially mixed types serving in the French Zouave regiments (and of course some of them ended up in the Zouaves of the Imperial Guard).

The Zouaves and Turcos of 1870 were trained to the same standards as the line infantry – although in truth it was the other way around. In 1866 the 3rd Zouaves became the model for new drills required after the adoption of the Chassepôt rifle. Those drills were rolled out to the rest of the rest of the army later that year.

There can be no doubt that the Zouaves and Turcos were excellent troops. They went to war in 1870 with a fearsome reputation from the part they played in the in the Crimean and Italian Wars, but their part in the war of 1870 is largely limited to the Battles of Wissembourg and Froeschwiller, for the simple reason that they suffered such severe losses in those actions that they were pretty much a spent force after that.

At Froeschwiller they were involved in four notable acftions; the 2nd Turcos in the eight hour struggle in the Froeschwiller Wood; the 3rd Zouaves in the Niederwald; the 3rd Turcos at the Brüch Mill; the 1st Zouaves against the Bavarians in Langensoultzbach Wood. In all these cases the North African regiments fought with incredible bravely and suffered crippling losses from which they were not able to fully recover. But in that same battle the line regiments fought equally as well and such examples include; the attack of four battalions from Marie's brigade that drove the Germans back off the Froeschwiller Ridge and into the streets of Woerth, before a lack of support and heavy losses compelled them to retire; the attack of the 96th Regiment that cleared the Petit Bois of German troops and lodged a battalion briefly in the Neiderwald, before a lack of support compelled them to retire; the attack of the 3rd and 21st Regiments that swept the Germans from the Calvary Hill before (you guessed it) a lack of support forced them to retire.

In all these instances the Zouaves, Turcos and line troops all attacked with the bayonet in standard formations, that is in two rank line, sometimes preceded by a skirmish line of up to two companies per battalion.

In fact at Froeschwiller only one battalion sized action, that of the 1st Chasseurs in the early morning opposite the Brüch Mill, could be classed as a typical light infantry action. There were numerous examples of actions by individual detached companies acting in a light infantry role, a practice that is a standard part of line infantry drill.

The famous "Zouave Drill" of the American Civil War most likely had its origin with the French "Chasseur Drill" that had its origin in the 1830s and further enhanced by the changes made by the French during the Italian Campaign of 1859, in which the Zouaves played a prominent role.

Sorry Cuirassier, but that's 'a north African look'. The indefinite object 'an' is used before a word commencing with a vowel or a silent consonant. This bizarre grammatrocity is becoming alarmingly common and needs to be nipped in the bud before it lodges permanently in the minds of the young and semi-literate.

That skin does look very dark, not merely sunburned. I wouldn't think the French sun is so intense as to produce a change of skin colour after a mere three weeks' exposure.

And their physiognomy looks a lot more semitic and/or Berber than European. It would seem that either racially mixed guardsmen were concentrated in particular units, and this photo just happens to show one of them, or they simply constituted a larger proportion of the formation's complement than you'd expect.

Henry Martini,

Please accept my apologies for the mistake. English is not my native language.

As I had said: Some of them were born in Algeria having at least one parent who was a French citizen ("white Frenchman"). THEY WERE CONSIDERED FRENCHMEN. You can find some racially mixed types serving in the French Zouave regiments (and of course some of them ended up in the Zouaves of the Imperial Guard).

The majority of the Zouaves serving in the Regiment of Zouaves of the Imperial Guard were indeed white Frenchmen.

Take a look at these fantastic photos of the Zouaves of the Guard (taken in 1866). Again, the photos are actually much larger than they appear on this site. Just copy and paste the HTML of the images and you'll see them in large size.

Most of these warriors were veterans of the Crimean War and/or Franco-Austrian War (Italian campaign of 1859) and/or French Intervention in Mexico and/or colonial campaigns, and many of these Zouaves were highly decorated veterans.

Officers of the regiment…

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Guard Zouaves wearing the campaign dress…

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Zouaves around the monument erected to honor the Regiment of Zouaves of the French Imperial Guard…

Take a look at the Tambour-Major of the regiment in the last photo… Charles Obzée Duchemin – Tambour-Major of the Zouave Regiment of the French Imperial Guard (see below). He was a veteran of the Crimean War and Franco-Austrian War (Second Italian War of Independence).

Duchemin was born in Guadeloupe, located in the Caribbean, in 1833. His father was a white Frenchman. Duchemin served in artillery and infantry regiments between 1853 and 1861. He was transferred to the Zouaves of the Guard in 1862 and became the regiment's Tambour-Major (Duchemin occupied this prestigious position between 1862 and 1867).

Thanks for the great post, Stracm! ;-)

One more photo of the Zouaves of the French Imperial Guard (from 1857).

1280x999:

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LARGER IMAGE (1600X1248):

Enjoy! ;-)

By 1870 the Turcos were composed exclusively of native North Africans with European officers, the Zouaves were Europeans who had settled in North Africa following the French occupation. Their nickname in metropolitan France was 'Pied Noir', I wonder if this had any connection with the story of Zouaves, after a very heavy night's boozing in Worth, having sold their boots for more drink and realising that they would be on a charge if spotted barefoot by an officer, blacked their feet with burnt cork to avoid detection. The plan almost worked but as they marched past McMahon he noticed that the soles of their 'boots' was a lighter colour than would otherwise be expected.

Desperadoes and extraordinarily brave, Henderson puts one Battalion's losses at worth as 93%.