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"What do you NOT like about X-Wing?" Topic


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1,297 hits since 24 Nov 2012
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo vojvoda Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member24 Nov 2012 5:45 a.m. PST

For me it is how bunched up the game can get with fighters right on top of each other once contact is made. It might just be the games I have played with the boys but we start with a larger area (3-4 players). I have done over adozen or so games and we usually end up with two or three battles going on in a pretty tight area.

Might tweek the game system some down the road.

VR
James Mattes

Tgunner24 Nov 2012 6:03 a.m. PST

I want more ships. X-Wing seems to only 2-4 ships per side. I would prefer a squadron based game with furrballs spinning around all over the board.

David Manley24 Nov 2012 6:19 a.m. PST

James, that sounds like most air combat games I've played :)

Personal logo vojvoda Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member24 Nov 2012 6:19 a.m. PST

I hear you! I have about 24 X Wings and 30 Tie fighters in the SWMB series that I plan to use and about as many in the 20/25mm Galoob series that I will convert the rules for.

Right now I am running 2 tie adv, 2 y wings, 5 x wings, 8 tie fighers and one Imperial shuttle (F-toys).

We might pick up another base set and maybe another odd ship or two at Target and Hobby Lobby today while we are out shopping.

Squadron on Squadron is really where I want the system to go. I see club games with dozens of fighters on the table.

VR
James Mattes

Personal logo vojvoda Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member24 Nov 2012 6:22 a.m. PST

David Manley on 24 Nov 2012 5:19 a.m. PST wrote:
James, that sounds like most air combat games I've played :)

Yeap my experience as well. Have not figured out why that is but the tendancy to bunch up and slug it out vice maneuver is something in table top gaming that is kind of the norm.

VR
James Mattes

Rapier Miniatures Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2012 6:34 a.m. PST

It also happens in real air combat, the idea being somewone can't float around the edge and just pick you off as you are too close to your enemy.

Chief Lackey Rich Supporting Member of TMP Fezian24 Nov 2012 7:48 a.m. PST

I'd like the ships to be cheaper, which would probably fix TGunner's complaint as well. The game can handle dozens of ships (especially multiplayer) but it's hard to scrape up that many models in most groups. Of course, you can always use other cheaper models, but I'd feel bad putting them up against some guy who spent three-five times as much for his prepaints.

Personal logo Who asked this joker Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2012 7:54 a.m. PST

I have not played ut I have seen the price tag. Too expensive!

ming3124 Nov 2012 8:15 a.m. PST

Very component heavy . Lots of markers and counters . takes longer to pick up than to play

thosmoss24 Nov 2012 8:22 a.m. PST

I wish there was a mechanic for tailing. The game is straightforward, and I'm reluctant to add a pile of rules striving for "realism" when all it would do is muddy up the purity of its simple model. But still … you're in my sights. Are you going left, or right?

I also have the imagination of a wookie. I'd love to see a series of scenarios that offer something besides "last man standing" as victory conditions. WWPD's "The Last Transport Is Away" was simply *brilliant* in coming down to a nail-biting conclusion, after fighting a battle that certainly seemed play-balanced and honed to beauty.

CPBelt24 Nov 2012 8:35 a.m. PST

The game's spiritual predecessor, Wings of Glory (WWII version), has tailing optional rules. Not sure if they will work with this game, since I don't play it. You can download the WoG rules for free and check them out.

Ghostrunner24 Nov 2012 9:54 a.m. PST

2 things I would have liked:

1. More divergence on the speed dials. For the most part, it's not all that clear that a TIE Fighter is faster/more maneuverable than a Y-Wing. I guess the difference should be subtle, but the fluff-guy in me wants there to be a bigger distinction.

2. Pilot skill should be a bigger factor. Over and over again, it's been proven that pilot skill is far and away more decisive than aircraft quality. Korea was a big case of this. The pilot special abilities are interesting, but tend to too easily break the game (in my opinion). I'm not sure how the skill number could factor in, and if it did it would no doubt make the game more complicated.

All in all, though, I like it.

On the subject of bigger battles, one thing I'm planning to do is break out my SWSSB stuff and use the miniatures as-is with the X-Wing rules. The biggest issue would be the need for more maneuver dials, but that's not too hard to work around.

Each fighter would abstractly represent a group of 4 fighters (maybe). I'll work out rules for capital ships, but they will pretty much just roll dice to inflict damage on other capital ships, and any fighters that are too close (low chance).

Personal logo FingerandToeGlenn Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2012 12:46 p.m. PST

Biggest single complaint--cost of the single minis. It completely stops me from expanding. They're just over-priced.

thabear24 Nov 2012 4:53 p.m. PST

Yeah i only bought the starter set so i'd have something to throw on the table with mates , but realistically the cost of additional ships (and the pilots)puts it out of my reach to expand any further.

I know there are all the licensing agreements and stuff so putting that aside i wonder if having only two factions to chose from limits the scope of the game , perhaps setting it during Clone Wars or prior would create more interest? ,,,,or maybe less ? cheers Tom

Mako1124 Nov 2012 5:01 p.m. PST

The cost of the minis.

The limitations on having to move the whole distance on the maneuver template. I've seen some people proposing a rules tweak for that issue, e.g. less than the full move plotted, but more than the next lowest one.

No collisions in combat. Seems to me there should be at least some chance of that, especially for head-on passes, e.g. perhaps each side rolling 1D10, and crashing if they roll the same number (only a 1% chance, but still could be fun – at least for others to watch), and a glancing hit knocking out shields, or doing one point of damage, if the numbers rolled are within one point of one another.

The very small playing area. I suspect that is enforced to ensure a lot of action, instead of players doing a lot of inconsequential moving, and avoiding one another, which leads to long, drawnout games.

I'd like to see more variation in the speeds and maneuvers as well. There are some proposals for addressing that, e.g. permitting pilots to slide to the outside or inside of their maneuver templates, at the end of their moves, when flying straight, or in turns. Those are some good options, but may reduce the overall effect of the barrel roll, for those with that capability.

Also, I don't really like Ties not being able to move at speed 1, but can see why they added that for game play. Still, not sure I like it (at least if I'm an Imperial player).

For the skills side of things, the better pilots moving later is a good technique, but is mitigated substantially by the need to preplot your maneuvers. That doesn't really permit you to take advantage of moving later.

Also, the better pilots firing first is a good system, which I like better than the above, since it gives them a big advantage.

As for making pilot skill even more of a presence in the game, I can see doing several things to improve that:

1. have them move in order of skill level, from worst to best, but the pilots don't have to use the maneuver dial at all, or only have to lock in left, right, and straight, etc. I prefer the former, since that gives them a much bigger advantage, and they can select any maneuver after seeing what the less skilled pilots do, and then move after them, with that knowledge – no preplotting needed.

If you think that is too powerful, make them commit to going left, right, straight, or doing a 180 degree turn, but then they can choose their speeds, and hard or easy turns after their opponents have moved.

2. have pilots roll <= to their skill rating to perform a difficult maneuver. If they fail, they perform the next closest, but easy maneuver, and get a stress token put on them for that. If they pass their skill check, they don't get a stress token, even for difficult maneuvers.

3. to give the poor pilots some chance of shooting down better ones, everyone must roll 1D6 each turn, and adds the result to their pilot skill rating. This total number then becomes their new pilot rating each turn, and gives the lesser pilots at least some chance of getting the drop on better pilots, occasionally.

If you think that's too powerful, use 1D3, or 1D4 instead.

I prefer rolling each turn, for variety, since fortunes can change during the course of an air battle. However, for simplicity, if you are using lots of fighters, you could just have them roll once, before the sortie, so the pilots know whether they are having a good, or an off day.

I suggest not permitting pilots to do that though, until they are in contact with the enemy, so if your expert rolled poorly, he can't try to hide out behind his mates for cover. Well, at least not on the first round of battle.

thosmoss24 Nov 2012 5:29 p.m. PST

> have pilots roll <= to their skill rating to perform a difficult maneuver.

Your mechanic sounds like Angels 20. Fine game, but I see this as a fine game, too.

Honestly, I appreciate the beauty of a simple game, and once getting my head into that space it's hard to propose a rule that brings five pounds of rulebook along with, just to make it fit.

Toaster24 Nov 2012 5:34 p.m. PST

I started a similar thread on ranting a few weeks ago, for my sollution see link
and link

And no I don't have any problem putting my much cheaper minis on the table vs the expensive ones, quite the opposite really.

Robert

Personal logo Who asked this joker Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2012 6:05 p.m. PST

1D10, and crashing if they roll the same number (only a 1% chance, but still could be fun – at least for others to watch

10% chance bud! You have 10 1% chances. That's 10%. grin Non-the-less, I like the rule!

Mako1124 Nov 2012 6:47 p.m. PST

10% is better…..

Toshach Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2012 9:49 p.m. PST

The bunching is a bit of a problem. This is likely caused by the tight turn radii of the ships. Make the movement/turn templates a little longer, and the combat should spread out. You'd also want to increase the length of the range ruler.

Personal logo nazrat Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2012 3:56 p.m. PST

I like everything and have no problems with the game as is.

We play on a 4 x 6' mat and have not had any problem with bunching. LOTS of maneuver, though!

WaltOHara25 Nov 2012 6:48 p.m. PST

hmmm…. pretty much nothing..

Personal logo richarDISNEY of the RDGC Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2012 9:51 a.m. PST

Not enough dice in the base set

Movement when the two bases collide. We always get confused on that.

My 13 yo daughter beating me all the time.
beer

Ghostrunner26 Nov 2012 2:53 p.m. PST

My 13 yo daughter beating me all the time.

Seconded.

My first two games with the starter set, my 12 year old son rolled at least three 4x hit rolls with the X-Wing.

Needless to say, my Imperial career was not off to a wonderful start.

Personal logo vojvoda Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member26 Nov 2012 3:21 p.m. PST

My two boys are 12 and 14 and the younger one is already an ACE!

VR
James Mattes

Clay the Elitist Inactive Member04 Dec 2012 9:20 p.m. PST

I've played three games and can tell the difference in maneuverability between a Tie fighter and X-Wing – it's HUGE. Tie fighters are fast and insanely more maneuverable than an X-Wing. A X-wing can slow to a crawl, though, and that really helps.

Pilot quality is devastating in certain circumstances. It's almost impossible to use a Proton Torpedo from a Y-wing with a crew skill less than the Imperial pilots. That's because you have to be in shooting range to put a lock-on to the target, but you move first. So your opponent has a chance to close the range (where you can't fire) or get out of your arc. It's very frustrating…..I love it!

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP07 Jan 2013 5:03 p.m. PST

An easy "tailing" rule— if a fighter is behind another and either scores a successful hit OR has an ongoing lock, the fighter can declare a "Tailing" attempt.

1.) The target of the tail moves prior to the tailing fighter, regardless of skill level.
2.) The tailing fighter roles 2 green dice. If any result is an "eye" or "evade" he can alter his movement however he chooses to respond to the movement of his target, regardless of what he originally selected on his dial. Otherwise the "tailing" effect is lost, and he must move as chosen by his dial. However, if the tailed pilot has a higher skill level than the tailing pilot, the tailing pilot only rolls 1 die.
3.) If the tail is successful, the tailing fighter gains an extra die on attack, regardless of range. (Note that this is in addition to any other extra dice bonuses.)

Tailing dice are rolled after the tailed pilot chooses his action for the round. If the tailed pilot has an "evade" marker, he can give it up to block one "evade" result on the tailing dice roll (but not an "eye" result). Focus markers have no effect on tailing or tailing dice. (Note that the roll occurs before the tailing fighter moves, so it will not have any focus or evade markers in place yet.)

The only catch I see is how to handle the 180° turn, except to say that such a turn automatically cancels any tail attempt, but automatically allows the "tailing" pilot to alter his maneuver— he sees the action and peels away (or presses the attack). Stress markers still apply, of course. And a "stressed" pilot cannot tail another pilot.

That should work without slowing things down, while still giving better pilots a greater chance to "shake" a tail.

Mako1107 Jan 2013 6:18 p.m. PST

Sounds good on the tailing rules.

I think the tailing pilot should be able to tail through the 180 degree turn, if he has the position, and passes the die rolls, too.

Perhaps make the tailing die roll a little harder though, e.g. only getting to roll 1 die, instead of 2.

Of course, both pilots will be stressed, so don't get any action bonuses.

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