"101st Airborne and Browning Automatic Rfiles" Topic

Using Band of Brothers as my cinematic reference (because my direction for this potential project will be based on various Band of Brothers scenarios), I am noticing a complete lack of B.A.R.s in the series. Did the 101st use the B.A.R. and if so at what level (squad, platoon, company)? I ask because the fine folks at Peter Pig make paras with B.A.R.s and I want to ensure that they are used IF the 101st used them.

Thanks!!

They dropped a plethora of Browning .30 caliber machine guns. I can only guess they could have used the Browning Automatic Rifle as well.

EDIT: As I am reading online in a forum, the Gliderborne troops were equipped with them. But not the actual paratroopers. It's on the internet so it must be true!

The TO&E had M1919 30 cal MGs at the squad level which gave them a lot more firepower then your typical infantry squad, which only had BAR. Your glider men in the 327th had BARs – not M1919s at the squad level. In fact the 327th's TO&E was similar to regular infantry units.

506th, 502nd, and 501st were airborne units and therefore had more firepower at the squad level.

Maybe the BAR was considered too heavy to jump with-and if they were going to have to drop weapons separately, they might as well drop a .30 cal.

> Maybe the BAR was considered too heavy to jump with

That's what I've read, although paras would be re-supplied later. I'm sure they were carrying BAR's by the time they walked into Bastogne …

This thread may be of interest:
TMP link

Like any plan, a TO&E never survives contact with the
enemy. The 504 (of the 82nd) had BARs as early as Italy. An account in "Devils in Baggy Pants) talks about how the squad drop their's by canister but never recovered it.

link

I seem to remember "Dutch" Schultz, a trooper in the 82d, was identified as a BAR man in Cornelius Ryan's books.

101st (and 82nd Airborne)included Parachute and Glider infantry regiments. The parachute units had a different TO&E to the Glider riders who used the standard infantry one.

This explains why you sometimes see 'airborne' troopers with the BAR…Glider Infantry used them, Parachute Infantry used the M1919 instead. Mostly.

"Big" Rodgers was also ided as a BAR man in the 504th. He jumped into Normandy as a volunteer to provide security for division HQ. He moved into the tree line right after landing and was killed shortly after. His squad fellow squad members (who didn't volunteer)recall a package of socks arriving from home for Rodgers about the time the invasion took place. They divided the socks among them and wore them until they fell apart some time around "The Buldge".

I am as close to certain as I can be that no paratroopers jumped into Normandy with BARs (glider troops did). The June 1944 para platoon had two 12-man squads, each with a M1919 30 cal MG. After Carentan, the 82nd and 101st shipped back to England for refitting and reorganization to the standard rifle platoon org., three squads, each with a BAR. Two M1919s were assigned to the platoon.

As above, the parachute (as opposed to gliderborne) infantry did not have BARs early on, but got them later.

Who needs a BAR when you've got a .30 cal, especially one of the natty bipod mounted jobs.

On a semi-related note; Robert Bowen, who served with the 327th GIR, mentioned that after Normandy he got himself a BAR to increase the firepower of his squad. However, it weighed a ton, so he got himself an SMG instead! :o)

Why would you want a BAR instead of a .30 cal MG?
M1918 BAR weight: 16 Lbs / M1919 Wieght: 31 Lbs w/o tripod
M1918 BAR ROF Rof 500-650 RPM / M1919 ROF 400-600 RPM
Same Caliber, same muzzle velocity, same range.

The M1919 is a brick. Even with the Stock, Pistol grip and carry handle attachment, firing the M1919 in the assault would be like slinging a cooler full of beer (nothing wrong with that). Add in that M1919 was prone to overheating and jamming and the BAR is a clear winner.

"I am as close to certain as I can be that no paratroopers jumped into Normandy with BARs"

We have had threads on this before a couple of times.

the 82nd did with at least 1 regiment

link

If I recall correctly, at the battalion level they were issued 19 BARs to dole out as needed, but I'm not sure if that was during the pre-Normandy structure or after they restructured in 1944 just before Market Garden though

Anyone confirm?

> M1918 BAR ROF Rof 500-650 RPM

The 20 round ammo limit makes that point moot. The BAR was a complete failure as a SAW, the M1919 while being too heavy was far better for the role.

The M1919 and the BAR have similar firepower because the air cooled M1919 must be fired in 3 or 4 round bursts to avoid overheating and jamming. It's only advantages are better sights and the belt feed (fewer and faster reloads)

Who decided the BAR was a complete failure as a SAW? I know the U.S. Marines in the Pacific would take offence to that, considering that late war squads were often task organized around the BAR. It was an ideal weapon there for cutting through dense foliage, and the M2 AP round was idea against bunkers and thin skinned Japanese tanks.

The M1919 and the BAR have similar firepower because the air cooled M1919 must be fired in 3 or 4 round bursts to avoid overheating and jamming. It's only advantages are better sights and the belt feed (fewer and faster reloads).

Unlike BAR, the M1919 apparently features changeable barrels, which should help with the overheating issue. That said, the lack of a handle on the barrel may have made this into something of an experience.

Also the extra stability of the tripod as a firing platform can be something of an advantage.

Sooooooooooooo…what folks are saying is that no one knows.

Sounds like I am safe to go either way. No B.A.R.s (for the 101st paratroops) in Normandy, and perhaps they had them for Market Garden and/or after. However, I see no reference to them what-so-ever in the eight or so 506th Easy Company memoirs I have read. I see references to .30 caliber machine guns, 60mm mortars, Garands, carbines, and .45 Thompsons, but nothing on the B.A.R., from what I remember.

Regardless, this has been a good thread, and I think you all for providing some insight and entertaining reading.

Well, just watched Part 4 (Replacements) again, and guess what? I noticed my first B.A.R. in Band of Brothers! I also saw a Grease Gun, never noticed those before. It appears than I can pretty much use any small arms for Easy Company and be fine, dependent upon the campaign.

Regardless, I still send out my thanks to a slew of good posts!

People that bad talk the BAR never fired one…

They definately had them in Market Garden Buckeye. You're safe there.

I researched this pretty thoroughly some years ago. I looked at every photograph of American paras in Normandy or in England the day before the drop that I could find and verify. I found some 60 verifiable photos. I examined the weapons the paras were carrying and did not record a single trooper eith a BAR. I found a couple of M1919s, but all the rest carried the standard personal arms. About 50% carried M-1 Garands, 25% Thompsons, and about 25% carried M-1 carbines.

It was curious since I knew that BARs were not in the TO&E for the Normandy Paras, I still expected a couple to have been scrounged in, but there were none. So I went back and reviewed some of the photos I had rejected as too iffy, as to time and place, and still no BARs.

So, if they were there, they were all hiding from every camera within twenty miles of Ste. Mere Eglise. Now there are a couple of oral histories such as the one linked by KevanG, but they're tough to verify. I'm not saying they are wrong, but my research, as well as the official TO&E did not corroborate their stories.

So there you have it.

I have been re-reading Webster's book, and he mentions them being used after Normandy.

Regardless, I ordered B.A.R. gunners to go along with the rest of the Peter Pig paras. I'll work on those, and then it will be a mix of Peter Pig Germans in zeltbaun and regular uniform.

Thanks all!