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"Turkish tank markings" Topic


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Personal logo Lluis of Minairons Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 3:09 a.m. PST

Hi all,

In a recent conversation with a modelist expert from Ankara, he told me that Turkish 1930s tanks rarely showed national markings --at most, a small plain red roundel on the sides.

I guess this would match with the picture below, taken from a thread in a forum unknown to me, link

picture

Otherwise, I had learnt somewhere that a national marking existed indeed, this consisting of a white crescent and star inscribed into a red roundel. And this other contemporary picture (from the same site) seems to confirm such:

picture

Given this, if you were to build a Turkish tanks unit, what kind of markings would you use for them?

Grinning Norm16 Nov 2012 4:27 a.m. PST

Red roundel with white crescent and star would look best for sure, so if I would find myself building such a unit for the wargames table then that most likely.

Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 5:58 a.m. PST

Absolutely; when presented with two historically accurate choices of markings, always pick the more elaborate one…. ;-).

(Also note the registration plate on the front, and what appears to be a vehicle number on the side of the turret bustle.)

RexMcL Inactive Member16 Nov 2012 9:26 a.m. PST

I'm nearly certain that Armor Magazine #17 had a color drawing of a Turkish T-26. I don't have it anymore so I can't confirm. Squadron has it for $3 USD so you might take the chance.
link

anleiher Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 9:39 a.m. PST

I would second Dom's sentiment. Don't ignore the aesthetic side of the hobby.

Personal logo Tango 2 3 Ditto Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 12:48 p.m. PST

I wouldn't necessarily do that. Soviet markings could include a red star but not very often, the fancier ones only for specific units. I think a hoard of Soviet T-26s, T-34s or what-have-you look very odd all sporting stars. (says a spoil-sport)

Think of ancients figures with a dark age or two between us now and then. 500 or 1000 years from now ater goodness knows what, some future wargamer or military modeller researching a late WWII T-34 tank company may hit upon the pink T-34/85 in London and then all historical hell will break loose! wink
--
Tim

Petrov Inactive Member16 Nov 2012 2:24 p.m. PST

I would just draw a kebab on it and call it a day :)

Griefbringer16 Nov 2012 2:31 p.m. PST

Does somebody have more detailed info on the size and vehicles of the Turkish tank force in the 1930-1945 period?

Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 3:40 p.m. PST

Very little info that I've come across, but here gives you a start – basically pre-war Soviet kit, with some German tanks donated in '43 as the Germans tried to get the Turks onside.

link

Personal logo Lluis of Minairons Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 3:42 p.m. PST

No I don't, but they seemed to have grabbed everything they judged trendy for the era: they successively had T-26, BA-6, Italian tankettes, French light tanks, PzKpfw III and IV… I bet they managed to get Shermans before the end of WWII :D

Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Nov 2012 4:44 p.m. PST

You're not wrong…. ;-)

link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member16 Nov 2012 5:47 p.m. PST

Some nice photos here,

link

Robert

Legion 417 Nov 2012 8:51 a.m. PST

Quite an eclectic mix … maintenance would be "challenging" !

Etranger18 Nov 2012 8:06 p.m. PST

From that link of Dom's

In 1943 two armoured brigades were founded in Nigde and Selimiye Barracks /Istanbul, the 1st Armoured Brigade at Davutpasa being re-named to 3rd Armoured Brigade. The new brigades were equipped with: 25 US M4 Sherman tanks, 220 M3 Stuart tanks, from the UK 180 Valentine yanks [sic] and 150 MK 6 light tanks as well as 60 Bren Universal Gun carrier vehicles were received.

I wonder if they were diverted from the Lend-Lease shipments being sent via Iran?

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Nov 2012 8:37 p.m. PST

Found this,

"From Jane's Tanks of World War II
Quote:
Turkey
The pre-war Turkish armoured force was built around a contract with the Soviet Union that saw the delivery in 1935 of 60 T-26 model 1933 tanks, five T-27 tankettes and 60 BA-6 armoured cars. The outbreak of war caused France and Britain to court Turkey, and this resulted in the delivery of further small quantities of AFV's. France delivered 50 R-35 light infantry tanks in January 1940 and Britain 16 Mk VIB light tanks at the same time.
Turkey's geographic location guaranteed that competition for her favour would continue. In September 1942 Churchill directed that tanks be made available in the form of 170 Stuarts and 200 Valentines. Deliveries began in November and continued through 1943. By the end of 1943 the Turks had also requested 500 Shermans to form two armoured divisions. By this time, however, Turkish indecision on entering the war, their receipt of weapons from Germany (22 PzKpfw III & 22 PzKpfw IVH), and a general shortage of armoured vehicles on the allied side had caused the British to lose their patience. Deliveries to Turkey were stopped in March 1944, by which time Turkey had received almost 400 Stuarts and Valentines, all tired vehicles from the Middle East and Persia/Iraq theatres and 34 Shermans that were no longer fit for service. Deliveries did not begin again until February 1945, when Turkey declared war on Germany. The Valentines, the most numerous tank in the inventory, were almost all 2pdr armed versions, with only a few Mk IX. "

link

tuscaloosa18 Nov 2012 8:53 p.m. PST

I wonder what the Turks did with all those tanks… quite an eclectic collection of WW2 armor.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member19 Nov 2012 5:12 p.m. PST

I wonder what reasons the 34 Shermans "were no longer fit for service" were. Robert

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