"Austrian Coverged Grenadiers" Topic

Just wondering if someone more knowledgable could tell me whether during the 7YW the converged Grenadiers would have carried flags (presumably carried off from one of the contributing regiments)?
If so which types would they have used, presumably not the Colonels flag?

It seems no:

link

no

The combined grenadier companies were ad hoc, that is grouped together for a particular mission or battle. When the battle ceased and the parent regiments were sent elsewhere, the grenadier companies marched with them.

Command of the combined grenadier battalions, and these varied in number of companies, were assigned to an officer from staff, so his rank may not necessarily have been that of a colonel.

On a side note, I noted converged companies tended to be grouped by nationality to facilitate giving orders language. Together with the German and Hungarian regiments, Grenzers also grouped their grenadier companies as the need arose.

Cheers,
Robert

Grenadiers did not carry flags.
Stephen

Mine have flags. Flags look cool.

Ah well, I am a historian who has written two books on the 7YW Austrian Army.

Afterall wargaming is a game so it does not matter.
Stephen

For those who like flags/colours, why not put 5 in the center of your Prussian Musketeer and Fusilier battalions? I do units of 48, and to me that would still look like a large colour party! 2 is enough for a 48 figure unit – reversed from each other. I can split them into 2 units of 24, each with one flag.

It is hard to believe that anyone in such a smoke-filled battle environment could look to the center to align to the colours!

As I recall, even Austrian grenadier officers carried muskets, so they seemed designed to "move fast, hit hard, and never mind the colours!"

GdeP

Is it true that in the Prussian service, Grenadier sergeants (one per company) formed at the center of the grenadier battalion with bare flag poles (or such), as a guide to the unit?

GdeP

Thanks for that people. Now does anyone know what I can use the three standard bearers that were in the OG25s Austrian Grenadier Command pack for?

No flags

IR1

If it is fairly common knowledge that grenadiers didn't carry standards, why do manufacturers & sculptors continue to do figures of grenadiers with flags? What use can you find for those figures?

-Elaine

"What use can you find for those figures?"

Carrying captured enemy flags; nice if placed about your General's stand.
As flag bearers assigned to the General's tent.
Clip the staff away and the figures can carry plunder.

My SYW Austrians are all Old Glory 15's and every extra figure or casualties have been used in this manner.

I have three Grenzers leaving the General's tent with cases of his best Tokay wine and standard bearers placed about the General's tent. With ten Generals, the camp is rather large.

If you check the List of Articles and Projects index at my blog 18th Century Sojourn, look to the heading terrain, find "camps" and building an Austrian army further down.

Plenty of photos.

Cheers,

18thcenturysojourn.blogspot.nl

If it is fairly common knowledge that grenadiers didn't carry standards, why do manufacturers & sculptors continue to do figures of grenadiers with flags?

…because at the time, they did not know any better. That is the truth.

I once talked to one figure company about this and the owner said that "if I don't have grenadier standard bearers, then people will ask for them anyway."

Grenadier standard bearers
are useful in the Imagi-Nation world

"What use can you find for those figures?"

You know she's right.

Now the Prussians had a couple of battalions who all wore grenadier caps. So a Prussian 'grenadier' standard bearer can be used for 1/13 or Old 6, both royal guard regiments. But a SYW Austrian grenadier color bearer is about completely useless, at least for historical applications.

The fact is that many sculptors are not expert on the subjects they sculpt, and they make rookie mistakes. As you should well know Elaine, from your own interest in American Indian miniatures.

just don't buy them if you find them so offensive..

3/15th and 6th

Thanks Your Eminence. I'll say 150 Our Fathers and put thumbtacks inside my shoes…

I've thought about placing spitoons --- errr, SPONTOONS --- in the hands of the Austrian Grenadier "standard bearers" I acquired in a deal. Since they are officers in the Austrian service, a little cosmetic work like that will make them quite serviceable as grenadier battalion leaders. PRUSSIAN grenadier flag wavers are a problem, being NCOs and not officers, AND being quite distinguishable with their colours cases wrapped 'round their torso -- at least on every model "I" have! For now, I am simply making a virtue of necessity and taking some I got in another pre-painted figures deal and making them the King's Color bearer in the first battalions. Wrong, yes, I know, but I'm on a budget. SOME-day I will pick up some extra standard bearers (anybody besides Front Rank sell individuals?), and paint replacements. Then I might try the "Camp Marker" idea noted above.

Is it true that in the Prussian service, Grenadier sergeants (one per company) formed at the center of the grenadier battalion with bare flag poles (or such), as a guide to the unit?

Essentially correct – although the offending items were extra-long (10ft) spontoons rather than bare flagpoles, and I'm uncertain whether there were indeed four or just two of them. Prussian grenadier battalions being used in firefights at least as much as for "storming parties", and often on the wings to steady the whole line of battle, they had to be given reference points for alignment, both their own and neighbouring units'.

@ Nighthawk: How many "wrong" colour bearers (Austrian and Prussians) are we talking about, and what make are your other figures?

@Musketier. I have three (3) "wrong" Prussian grenadier standard bearers in use. I am forced to press them into service, for now at least, as they are painted and I am "short" four (4) fusilier and seven (7) or eight (8) musketeer standard bearers for my current painted Prussian "contingent." All these "battalions" are made up with Front Rank 28mm SYW Prussians; I should note that they are 12-figure/4-stand units based on the Piquet/Cartouche rules system.

I have another four or five painted Austrian Front Rank grenadier officer/standard bearers that I am "converting" to "grenadier company/battalion leaders" with spontoons which I'm going to have to fabricate. My Austrian ad hoc converged grenadier units need the leaders anyway, so this is a "wash" for me -- in as far as the Austrians go, at least.

[I also have a few Russian and French "battalions" that are also short their second standard bearers, but a) that wasn't the original question, nor b) do I have any painted Russian or French grenadier standard bearers being pressed into service ILO the proper figures…]