"WSS Scots Greys" Topic

Does anyone know what the mitre hat worn by the Scots Greys looked like during the War of the Spanish Succession? All illustrations I have found seem to show them during mid century, not earlier.

According to Wikipedia, The Source, they were wearing mitres during the WSS also.

Spanish succession is really 19th century??

As far as I am aware it is the standard Dragoon hat. So a Mitre but not as tall as the later grenadier style.

So, the dragoon hat, or a mitre?!

This surprises me. I thought all British dragoons wore the tricorn except the Scots greys who were allowed to wear the grenadier mitre as a special distinction earned during the war (at Ramillies at think?).

Can anyone quote their sources regarding the head gear of the Scots Greys for the WSS period. I've seen figures painted up wearing tricornes, short mitres and tall mitres!

You should post this question on the League of Augsburg site because I'm sure someone there could answer this in short order but they do not frequent TMP.

leagueofaugsburg.com

Go to the 'Fighting Talk' heading and post your question under the 'Wargaming the period 1660-1721' section.

Thanks for that 18th Century Guy, I'll register and re post.

Most likely they would have been in tricorn. In the War of Spanish Succession they were Hay's Dragoons or the North British Dragoons but apparently were already riding grey horses at that time even though the name Scots Greys came later. See link
Simon

This question does come up a lot.

According to the regimental histories -

1681 Stone grey coat when raised, various horse colours, iron helmets.

1690's All grey horses (possibly by William III)
Scarlet jackets and blue facings

1706-7 Given permission to wear the grenadier cap after their performance at Ramillies

1751 Clothing warrant of 1 July – detailed separately

I have not seen the source or more details on the headgear – it maybe in Marlborough's correspondence or that of Cadogan.

BTW I frequent both sites but don't post a lot.

My original (Peter Laing?) 15mm were wearing tricornes with grey horses.

The bearskins were introduced in the 1768 clothing warrant (or made official?)

Tricorns for most of the regt throughout the WSS. Clothing supply lists for the regt from 1705-6 and 1708 mention caps specifically for its troop of Grenadiers and hats for everyone else. No detail of these caps unfortunately.

The Grenadier troop, which some other Brit Dragoon regts had (eg 4th and 5th), does not appeared to have survived the WSS, becoming a standard troop by the end of the war.

The Greys (and the 5th Royal Irish, although it's not clear the latter adopted it) were granted the right for the whole regt to wear Grenadier caps as a result of their record at Ramillies some time during the reign of Anne (1702-14), but clothing lists from 1715 again only mention hats. The first indication I can find of the Greys all wearing caps is about 1719.

BTW, a regiment probably intended to represent the Greys is clearly shown in the near contemporary tapestry of the storming of the Schellenberg in Blenheim palace. The Duke took a very close interest in their design and production. Grey horses and tricorns for all are shown.

Grey horses for all from at least 1694 when the regt is described in a review. The review also mentions that the impressive size of men and horses made them more like a regt of Horse than of Dragoons. Perhaps worth noting when grading the unit for wargaming.

Hope that helps.

BTW- during the WSS, the regt was already being referred to as the 'Grey Dragoons'.
In one of Marlborough's letters after Ramillies he mentions that 'Jemmy Campbell behaved like an angel at the head of the Grey Dragoons' describing the routing and en masse capture of the Regt du Roi by the Greys towards the end of the battle. IIRC this officer was Sir James Campbell who as a Lt-Gen was killed many years later at Fontenoy leading the whole British cavalry.

The info I have,

two indep companys were raised in 1678, they wore grey coats breeches, helmets or grey bonnets, armed with broadswords, bayonets, short muskets with buckets.
25th November 1681 Formed into a regt called "Royal Scotch Dragoons." Thomas Dalzeil Colonel
1683 still in grey cloth coats

1684 gained permission to wear red and scarlet coats.
1685 Lord Charles Murray colonel
1687 red coats, blue facings and tin buttons
wore caps as well as hats. In a painting at Hampton court dragoons can be seen wearing red coats, and brown fur caps, red bags (or hoods as they were called). the cap is similar to French Dragoon cap.
1688 Entered England, Sir Thomas Livingston colonel
1690 sergeants loops metioned, coats with laced buttn holes.
6606 pounds and 10 shillings paid to the Colonel Levington
1690-92 loops for officers and sergeants mentioned. Brass buttons replace tin. Refered to as the Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons.
1693 Livingstone orders grey horses for officers
19th April 1694 Kings Parade in Hyde Park Sir Thomas Levingtons (livingstons's) Dragoons "were all mounted on grey and white horses, and new clothed and are more like troopers of horse than dragoons."
22 April 1694 "The Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons"
1702 refered to as "grey dragoons", also "Scots regiment of white horses"
1704 Officers blue breeches and blue waistcoats embroidered with Gold, Subalterns laced belts, qautermasters plain red coats, hats of all laced. Lord John Hay Colonel
1705 buff belts, Grenadier caps ordered for the Grenadier coy, hats and cockades for the remainder.
1706 white linen frocks, lined blue. Lord John Dalrymple.
A image of Christian Davies (Mother Ross)

1707 renamed "Royal Regiment of British North Dragoons"
1713 become the second dragoons
1714 David Earl of Portmore Colonel
1717 James Campbell Colonel

The tapestry of Donauwert depicts the Royal North British Dragoons in a mix of fur caps and hats.

Post WSS Grenadier officer cap Royal North British Dragoons

Paris – Musée de l'Armée, Dist. RMN-Grand Palais

rear

early history of the Regiment
The Memoirs of Captain John Creichton: From His Own Materials
link
WSS memoirs
Capt Parkers Memoirs
PDF link

Books
History of the Royal scots greys
link

CP Lawson History and Uniforms of the British army

cheers
Matt

Matt, thank you for the images and links, not seen these before.