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"Finnish National markings" Topic


14 Posts

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552 hits since 9 Nov 2012
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Comments or corrections?

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member09 Nov 2012 10:13 p.m. PST

Just came across this in my Internet journeys LOL.Really?? Though it does make a good National Insignia for a fantasy air force wink. Robert

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Klibanophoros09 Nov 2012 10:28 p.m. PST

Good to see over the top political correctness is alive and well.

Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Nov 2012 4:01 a.m. PST

Understandable on one level – you simply can't sell them in some countries with anything swastika-like on them, but why you'd make up a marking rather than simply use the roundel the Finns adopted late-war baffles me….

Lonkka1Actual10 Nov 2012 5:35 a.m. PST

To quote great philosopher C. Brown: Good Grief!

I've seen some companies do a blue cross on white dot with four separate blue bars for the cross so you can make your own swastika. I'd imagine it would be a nightmare to attach those.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member10 Nov 2012 12:41 p.m. PST

This is how they came with the kit,

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Kaoschallenged Inactive Member10 Nov 2012 3:28 p.m. PST

I have to admit though the swastika without the middle looks like a good National insignia too grin. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member10 Nov 2012 8:09 p.m. PST

And I do agree that the late-war roundel would have worked too. Robert

Lonkka1Actual13 Nov 2012 8:01 a.m. PST

Late-war roundel?

Late-War insignia differed from the previosu one by not having white as background color, ie. being low visibility version of the old one.

The current roundel was only used after war after Soviets banned anything that reminded them even remotely of fascists. So the blue swastika that had been the insignia from 1918 onwards, well before no one even dreamt of nazis, had to go.

Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Nov 2012 12:01 p.m. PST

I thought it was adopted in '44 when Finland switched sides?

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member13 Nov 2012 1:36 p.m. PST

I was under the same impression. I did find this though. My books on the FAF are still in boxes. Robert

"After a series of tests in late 1943 a new subdued swastika was approved on 12.1.1944. The white roundel was simply toned down using officially light blue DN Colour (FS 25414) but in practice any available light grey or silver paint. Down toning was done at once to new planes and gradually to other planes when they were repaired or overhauled in State Aircraft Factory. Units also repainted the backgrounds of insignias and occasionally lower surface insignias were retained white.

After the Continuation War in autumn 1944 the Allied Supervision Commission saw that the old Finnish national insignia was too similar to Nazi swastika symbol. On 13.3.1945 a new smaller (maximum diameter 66 cms) and more modern roundel cockade insignia was adopted retroactively since 1.3.1945 with original basic colours – blue and white."

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Personal logo Dom Skelton Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Nov 2012 6:08 a.m. PST

Live and learn….

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member15 Nov 2012 5:49 p.m. PST

Yes you do Dom. I didn't know about the date of the change at all. arobert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Nov 2012 4:20 p.m. PST

"Swastika becomes a problem

The armistice between Finland and Soviet Union was effected on the 4-5.Sept. 1944. The war was ended by an interim peace treaty signed in Moscow on 19.9.1944. According to its stipulations The Allied Control Commission in Helsinki was to follow the execution of the treaty conditions until the final peace treaty would be effected. FiAF and AA was controlled by Gen.Maj. A.P. Andrejev assisted by more than ten other officers. His counterparties were the FiAF commander Gen.Lt. J.F. Lundqvist and Col. K.W. Janarmo.

The Allied Control Commission members were perplexed by the fact that the FiAF kept flying "under the swastika", the swastika, that had made itself impossible as a Nazi symbol. Gen. Andrejev presented the matter like this, completely unofficially and personally to Gen. Lundqvist and Col. Janarmo during their meeting in Hotel Torni (the ACC HQ, tr.rem.), on 21.2.1945. Vae victis, explaining the history of the symbol, that it had arrived painted on the wings of the aircraft donate by von Rosen, and that it had become the national insignia by order of Gen. Mannerheim as early as March 1918, did not have any effect.

New national emblem and aviator badge

Consequently at the proposition of the commander of the FiAF the commander of the Finnish Defence Force submitted to the President of the Republic on 8.3.1945 to be decreed that the national emblem of the FiAF would be starting 1.4.1945 a blue-white roundel, corresponding the military cockade. Simultaneously with the removal of the previous national emblem, all other FiAF symbols including the swastika motif were deleted. The decree was a military matter, concerning only the FiAF. The fact was that Mannerheim, ordering in 1918 the swastika as the FiAF national emblem, would now have to remove it. However, Mannerheim was incapacitated by illness, so prime minister Paasikivi did the dirty work as stand-in for the president. Fighting against Germany was going on in ravaged Lapland, war refugees had not yet been settled, war reparations were coming due, the guilty ones for the war were to be prosecuted, the domestic political situation was tense and The Allied Control Commission was making their presence felt. One of the national symbols vanished without much ado, but only from the FiAF use. The political realities prevailed."
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Kaoschallenged Inactive Member24 Nov 2012 1:34 p.m. PST

I wonder how much the old Finnish National insignia on aircraft would go over now if it was brought back. Of course if the Finnish people wanted it back due to national pride or nationalism.Robert

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