"How good are 1/72 Ancients sets these days?" Topic

I recently re-discovered all the new (2004 or so onwards) 1/72 scale slightly bendy, but cheap figures.

What are your recent experiences? I don't really want to hear horror stories of old Revell or Airfix WW2 germans from 15 years ago, I'm more interested in the here and now.

More specifically, how easy are they to prime, paint and glue, and have you had trouble with breaking parts or flaking paint?

When I see sets like these link all painted up, there's no question the figures can be brilliant, and neither does that page mention anything about pva solution undercoats in its painting / priming articles (for example, link

So what's the deal here? Surely there must be something besides old hatreds outdated perceptions preventing these brilliant looking but very cheap (7€ for 40+) miniatures from breaking through as a scale for Ancients and other periods.

Edit: Crossposted to Napoleonics and Medievals, because this really isn't restricted to Ancients, as new style 1/72 representation seems to cover all periods.

i think lots of guys use these (all of my north america figures (AWI, 1812, FIW) are 1/72 and they are nice. Modern primers and glues have resolved a lot of the old flaking issues (although touching up spears and rifles must still be done occasionally).

I think one of the factors that inhibits wider adoption is that other scaled (15mm in WW2; 28mm and 15mm in ancients and naps) predominant. Do you want to paint up any army if no one else games in that scale?

A number of my local club members invested in 1/72nd scale when we started playing War & Conquest.

The advantage being, its a very cheap investment in soldiers and there is a massive range of choice (even through to WW2) especially as W&C now has around 500 army lists to choose from.

Very quick to then get gaming. If based up in the same way as 28mms, once in battle you barely notice the difference.

Pics here link , one of the armies in the third and fifth pics are plastic, their opponent 28mm metal.

You can find some more here link (in the attached pdf, Carthangians and Rep Romans)

So, cetainly within some gaming groups, using them (against larger scale opponents) is not a problem. Paint wise, yes theres the odd bit of flaking, but easy to remedy, or simply just take care of them!

With War & Conquest now having a Napoleonic pdf free online, I intend to find my old Airfix warriors, add some new boxes and try that out.

Finally its an excellent low cost way to introduce new people to gaming.
Clubs and stores can easily afford a few boxes and a bit of time to paint them up as some starter armies.

Kind regards

Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

I think 1/72 is getting more respectable among wargamers (for want of a better word) due to the boom of very nice sets in recent years – there are plenty of dogs as well though. Bob's right though that the popularity of the main metal sizes, 28mm and 15mm, means that if you want to build a 1/72 army odds are you'll have to commit to do both sides. That's my experience anyway.

Poses can also be an issue – some 1/72 plastic poses are pretty funky and gamers often want a lot of a few similar poses. HaT have recently begun releasing Napoleonic and 7YW sets in all marching poses which are great and seem to be selling well.

One caveat I have personally – I painted a bunch of Zvezda figures which looked unbelievably awesome in the raw plastic. But this made them incredibly fiddly and time consuming to paint. There's a point when awsome detail becomes a downside for the gamer who wants to paint a lot of these figures.

I like the quality of HaT, Zvezda, Italri and Caesar figures. I used dip to help protect the paint and they are impossible to chip when you use dip. You can also supplement with 20mm metal ranges. If you are concerned over cost like me then the range make sense.

I really love metal ranges but the cost of 28mm metal is too high for me and it would take forever to build an army. I tried 15mm but ended up selling them off. PLastic 1/72 is plentiful and inexpensive.

Perhaps its a nostalgia trip for me but I think they are brilliant , some poses not as useable as others but for the low cost of a set of figures i dont mind leaving a few "uglies' on the sprue in favour of using the better figures . Amongst my groups varied interests we play 1/72 Ancients , Napoleonics , Sudan , ACW , WW1 and WW2. There is no doubt there are some badly sculpted sets , but its simple really , dont buy them. Go for what youve seen in the flesh( plastic) and stick to it. Ive seen allot more uglier 28mm metals than i have bad plastics . Amongst the several artmies ive been able to produce for the above periods ive also been able to supply baggage trains for each period and for the Punic Wars ive painted up both sides , a feat rarely affordable with metal figures . The 1/72 option is not to be scoffed at these days and is a viable option for gaming uses . cheers Tom

the only experience i have with modern 1/72 plastics is zvesda and italeri. zvesda seem to be decently detailed and fairly sturdy for the most part except the pikes were easily flexible(i built a pike phalanx for a gift) and they painted nicely. the italeri romans and celts i had were made of an odd plastic that was hard to clean up mold lines and such, the detail was sub standard,yet they painted up ok. my opinions may be a tad biased because i grew up 25/28mm gaming and rarely ever do other scales.

As someone who has worked almost all scales in wargaming, I can say that modern 1/72s are really a treat. However

1) ranges are still not as extensive as 15mm – 25mm

2) If you have learned to paint in 25/28mm, 1/72 are a bit underwhelming (do not get me wrong I love them and they paint well, see here

But 1) is the main issue I think.

With Respect
KTravlos

All my Ancients these days are 1/72nd scale plastics (fleshed out with a few metals). Hat, Zvezda, Italieri and yes, even old Airfix figures.

Lovely figures, paint up well, durable, light, cheap etc etc. I do use PVA undercoat though.

I've never stopped using 20mm plastics for WW2 though (started in 1970).

At our club, the people mostly have bad memories of old 1/72 plastics, and have sworn off them forever.

Apparently, the 1/72s we used on the 28mm Black Powder table were closer to the 15s on the other table. I suspected that in this case the 15s would be Xystons or similar overscaled ones, and the Perry 28mms well over that scale as well.

Nice to hear a lot of positive thoughts on them. Currently I dip all my miniatures, so that should help with these as well.

Wonder if I should still get a dedicated plastic primer though? Don't really want to mess around with PVA coats.

If I were to get into this, I'd paint up periods not represented by club members' collections and likely paint up several armies just for the sake of it anyway. The main interesting thing would be whether they could be played with 15s or 28s on the same table in a pinch, like we did in the BP game.

Today's plastics can be great. Several are made of a different plastic now that can be easily glued; the available ranges are much more varied; and the number of garbage poses has been reduced by most makers. Definitely recommend the following two blogs, as both are huge plastics proponents and very talented.

paulsbods.blogspot.com

willwarweb.blogspot.com

And, of course, frequently check in with the Plastic Soldier Review to see what's available, what most of it actually looks like, and what's on the horizon.

link

Bill
Sir William the Aged

They are good and getting better all the time, as the ranges expand. If I were to start entirely over, I might consider shifting from 6mm to 1/72 for everything. I'd probably still choose 6mm, but 1/72 would be the only serious contender.

Doug

Spray them with Krylon Fusion primer to start. It bonds with soft plastic to create a strong, flake-free primer. Then you can paint regular acrylics on top as you wish.

I second Krylon, I used it more recently and it's changed my outlook on painting 1/72 plastics where I have had mixed results.

As far as manufacturers my favorite is Chariot, especially their Assyrians. With Zvezda being a close second.

That being said I really prefer 15mm, cost is comparable, detail is just as good, you don't need as much gaming room and they are easier and more enjoyable to paint in my opinion.

Nice tips. SonofThor, where have you found comparably priced 15mm:s?

The cheapest I could find was 12 infantry for 2.50£ I believe from Warrior. I suppose that's pretty comparable! Though with European shipping (40%), it comes to over double the cost per miniature compared to 1/72s for me, so sticking with 28mm plastics might be better compared to them.

The Warrior 15mm:s I did look at did seem inferior in detail to the 1/72s, which is understandable given the size difference.

6mms might be interesting, but that, again is another scale. I counted the math, and I can get over half the figure count of 1/72s (at 7€ per set of 41 or so) compared to, say, 96 Baccus at 6£ plus vat 20% plus shipping 15%.

Old Glory is a good one, I guess over all 15mm metals are still a bit more expensive per figure but not much. Khurasan has some really nice minis, not a lot for ancients, and Blue Moon has just started an ancients line.

6mm are pretty nice as well, I've only painted Heroics & Ross, they're okay I'm not completely sold on the scale yet though. They paint up really quick.

Used to be 1/72 heavy.

1/72, to me, was way more preferable than 15mm. Cost is a win for 1/72 always.

However, I recently released all of my 1/72 – an enormous task in and of itself considering the sheer amount I had collected, painted, stocked.

It got to a point where I was fed up with the often goofy posing, lack of simple conversion (yes I know you "can" convert 1/72, but it really is cantankerous compared to larger scales), moronic choices by some manufacturers and I just got tired of the lack of chunkiness (I like my miniatures with some stock, not weedy looking, probably a reason why I had so much Zvezda 1-72).

Painting wasn't a big issue. The krylon sprays made priming a breeze after washing and I never had issues with flaking outside of bent or outright dropped figure stands. I used all cheap acrylics and it was fine. The painting issue is nothing as long as all precautions are taken.

I just didn't like the results once I was done – 1/72 is great en masse (2000 miniature+ tables), but falls apart in small numbers vs. 28mm in my humble opinion. Life is in the details for me I guess. I blame Major Reddering too. :)

I have to say I/we got incredible mileage out of 1/72. If you are starting out or cash-low, then 1/72 is far preferable to 15mm. If you are into WW2, then it might be the only option considering the cost/worth of 28mm WW2 vehicles and/or 15mm WW2 stuff. Heck, for cost, it probably beats anything anywhere.

I have not looked back after changing to 28mm. Though I still game in 1/72 WW2.

Times change and people change. I think I wanted 28mm because I always did and 1/72 was a stop on the eventual road to a larger chunky scale.

For you, it might be different. Everyone has different likes, so if 1/72 works, go for it with gusto. I am not sorry I did way back when.

apologies for hijacking thread ,,
For under fifty bucks you can do this , two full Napoleonic armies

or this

And thabear nails it for the win!

A lot of it comes down to what you enjoy gaming and painting. I have been buying 1/72 scale figs since the 60's as a kid. I love the scale and am pleased with all the vast number of sets available today. Who would have thought you could game 1877 Russo-Turkish War in 1/72? Or the Crimean War? Great Northern War and so on. I'd rather paint 1/72 than almost any other scale. Maybe 6mm would be close. My buddy Rob on the other hand is a full fledged 28mm fan. However, taking into consideration of pricing, available ranges and the improvement in sculpts for 1/72 makes it a viable choice for many folks.

Thanks,

John

One other point to bear in mind with 1/72 figures is basing density. They're too big to use suggested 15mm figure basing requirements but often look a bit sparse if you choose basing suggested for 28mm figures. I'm basing my 1/72 Naps 3 wide on 40mm bases giving about a 13mm frontage; individual 1/72 go on 15mm bases. This gives a similar visual density to 28mm armies based WAB or DBx style.

I agree, Alex, in fact, I'd probably base mine at half again as many troops per frontage as in Thabear's excellent images.

Modern rulesets like Black Powder and derivatives are relaxed when it comes to number of figures in any case, the intention is to use what looks best.

DBM basing looks really, really sparse to me by the way!

Anyone who can look at Zvezda'a output and find something to dislike is fooling themselves (IMHO).

These are beautiful : link

and so are these : link
link

I could go on.

The plastic is in no way as soft as it used to be. I still wash them, then either prime with a coat of acrylic varnish or a coat of thinned PVA (favouring the PVA right now).

Then paint and seal as normal.

Paint stays on – I've had figures painted 20+ years, paint is still on. Of course the more you use them the more there will be wear – same is true for metal.

Several years ago someone reported in MWAN that they did a drop test and throw against the wall test with plastic figures painted & sealed as above and they had no flaking. Do that with metals and see what happens !!.

Take a stroll through PSR and see the fantastic figures available in ALL periods (including fantasy & SF !) and you may well agree with me that "If I were starting now I'd just do plastics, and hardly bother with metal".

Just to add to 20thmaine's points – HaT's very soft plastic takes paint better than just about any substance. I tried stripping some I wasn't happy with and it was almost impossible to get it all off. And, although the softness of it makes cleaning the mould line a chore it's great for Naps – you will never, ever get a broken bayonet with those figures.

I think the response to this thread just goes to show to the OP how 1/72 plastic figures do have an inreasing number of enthusiasts among the gaming community!

I use them for skirmish gaming. They are cheaper than 15mm figures and because of their size, have a similar visual impact of 28mm figures. As mentioned above, they are simple in design, which makes them simple to paint. If you are looking for the ultra detail of some 28mm figures, you will be disappointed.

I have been collecting figures for the Dark Ages (Post Roman Britain) but you have to be a little creative with figures to get what you want. Fortunatly, New Line Designs has a nice 1/72 scale Dark Age line. I hope they continue to expand it with some Picts.

The Classical Period OTOH is very very well represented in 1/72 scale. Just with HaT and Zvezda, you can make some mighty nice armies.

Again forgive the hijack , but these are two more shots of last weekends gaming, i was able to supply a large French army for a Napoleonic game and two large opposing armies for Ancients, each game cost me less than 50 bucks to collect the figures and there is no shortage of units to share around with freinds . Ill be the first o admit they are not all the best figures, but they certainly are not the worst either , good value for money.
cheers Tom

Well – I think they look really nice.

I have always liked them anyway (no 'bad old days' to reflect on): I disagree with the negative comparision with 28mm (if 28mm had the same, more 'realistic' aesthetics that 1:72 plastics has, I might be more tempted by 28mm).

I have never had any problems painting them or converting them.

My main ancient and medieval collections are 15mm both because, historically, plastics have not offered the width of coverage, and in order to be compatible with other people.

Rustoleum sell a very nice plastic coating that can be recommended.

I think that sometimes people compare 28mm with 1/72 and find them lacking, but forget that 28mm miniatures will be approaching twice the volume of a 1/72 guy, so everything is bigger and bolder, and so responds well to bold painting.

But 1/72 is closer to the bigger 15s, and when one compares plastics to the better 18mm ranges, then most plastics these days stand up proud to that comparison. If anybody wants to see excellent 1/72 painting, then Victorious Secrets website is a must.

Really good to see some ancients painted up – I am toying with the Punic Wars in plastic for next year (and yes, they will be "dipped") because of the extensive ranges available from HaT, Zvezda and Italeri.

Basing wise, I find my Naps look good on the old "standard" 15mm frontage per figure, whereas most 28s now look far to big to easily fit onto those base sizes. And once based on a 45mm by 40mm mdf base, my 6 Naps look good and are well protected from handling damage. But to be honest, most modern acrylic paints and varnishes cope with being bent in normal use on plastic figures anyway.

As to lack of opponents – the joy of plastics is that they are affordable enough for one to create both sides.

So go for it, and enjoy. If you eventually migrtae to 28mm you will not have lost much money on the trial.

Loved all the photos of the plastic wargame armies.

Thanks to all for posting them.

One of the attraction of 1/72 for me is the more realistic proportions of the figures. 28mm have great detail and dynamic poses, but I find it hard to accept the overly large heads and hands. This is subjective of course.

For this reason I snapped up some Dust Tactics figures because I think they look great proportion-wise even though they are around 1/48. I also enjoy the Infinity figurines which has relatively realistic proportions as well.

In terms of raising armies for wargaming, 1/72 is the sweet spot for me wrt to price, ease of painting and size. More dedicated painters and modelers will have other criteria.

With the right protection paints stay on the plastics just fine.

I cut my teeth as a model builder in 1/72 scale starting around the age of 8. My first sci-fi figures were McEwan Miniatures Starguard figures, which are *still* true 25mm scale aka 1/72 scale aka 1 inch = six feet and well and thoroughly compatible with 1/72 scale plastic model kits and figures.

The sheer variety of subjects now available in 1/72 scale plastic today from Zvezda, Caesar, Waterloo 1815, et al is orders of magnitude beyond the old Airfix figure sets of my childhood that I found so amazing as a kid.

The right primer coat, acryllic paints, and a shot of Testor's Dullcote to seal the deal and one can build a perfectly viable reinforced infantry platoon with a single box of WW2 infantry figures for dirt cheap. A single set of say Celtic infantry, Mayan warriors, or samurai can provide a pair of opposing forces for a skirmish game, the perfect entry point for a novice gamer or someone on a budget or just anyone who wants to dabble in painting something different.

Caesar Miniatures just released 16th century Ming Chinese infantry suitable for the Imjin War 1592-98 against Japan. If they release Ming cavalry and artillery, I am going to build a proper Ming army for this period along with a 1/72 scale samurai army to take them on and finally get to enjoy staging fights between these historical opponents that fought so ferociously and well during one of the Far East's bloodier conflicts that is still not known as well as IMHO it deserves in the West.

IMHO we're in a period of a real wealth of choices that keeps growing in 1/72 scale plastics. They're a splendid way to introduce the hobby to newcomers and especially for anyone with a tight budget to get started in this splendid hobby of ours.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Excellent points Leland. I could not agree more!

Thanks,

John

@thabear: What games are you playing for ancients / naps? Looks like a decent density of troops, but you're coming in under $50 USD – what packs are you using?

FMB

50 bucks can buy you about 9-10 packs of many Hat sets including shipping. That's up to 480 infantry. Not bad.

Thanks,

John

Check out the Tumbling Dice 1/72nd metal ranges as they've got lots of figure vaiants within each individual code.

Age of Migration: Late Romans, Goths & Huns.

Dark Ages: Late Saxons, Vikings & Normans.

13th Century Crusdades: Franks & Saracens.

These are damn good figures take it from me. Next up are a Thirty Years War/ECW range which I shall definitely be taking a look at.

For metal figures in 1/72 (or close enough for government work!), Tumbling Dice rock!

I have a sizable mob of Tumbling Dice Great War French, Turks, Russians, and Germans, as well as a small bunch of the American figures in Adrian helmets (ie., the Black American doughboys of "Harlem Hellfighters" fame and AFAIK the only such figures available of the 369th, 370th, et al in this scale in any form!). They're quite compatable IMHO with 1/72 scale plastics and plastic models, including HaT Industrie and Zvezda.

For the specialized Great War troops like French colonials, U.S. Army 369th Infantry doughboys, etc., Tumbling Dice can cover your needs in metal, while one can build up the rest from HaT and the other plastic makers.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Bought some – threw them out and bought 28mm metal and hard plastic instead. More expensive but easier to paint, maintain, model and feel better in the hand. Cannot stand some plastic figs even the harder plastic Italeri WW2 figs are too soft for my tastes.

The range is much expanded over what used to be available and if I was 12 again this is what I'd buy. If I wanted figures that I'd be proud to use for many years I'd go metal and hard plastic. Metal mainly.

Quality costs.

"Quality costs."

Isn't that Games Workshop's new advertising slogan?

Anyone know what models for nap's those are in Thabears pics? I can't seem to message him.

@Lord Marcus
They look like the Hat French young guard set;
link
Cheers
paul