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"Chinese Civil War Aviation" Topic


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1,561 hits since 22 Oct 2012
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Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Oct 2012 4:48 p.m. PST

Some interesting scenarios could be played out between the Nationalist Chinese and PLAAF shortly after WWII. From what I have read so far there were at least 11 engagements between them. Both sides used ex-IJAF and IJNAF aircraft along with the Nationalists using US aircraft that were supplied to them by the US during and Postwar. The Nationalists used P-47s , P-51s, B-25s and B-24s.The PLAAF also used some captured P-51s,Kawasaki Ki.45, Mitsubishi Ki. 30, Ki.46, Ki.51 and Tachikawa Ki.55s.Both sides also used Oscars,Franks and Tojos.

"But the Communist forces, known before 1949 as the Chinese Democratic Alliance Forces, had liberated a wing of late model Hayabusas at Shenyang, Liaoning Province in their occupation of the Northeast in 1945-47. Their air force experience began at that time under the guidance of a captured Major Kobayashi who set up a training school for pilots and technicians that became the Red forces' first aeronautical institute. They also received some of the assets of Manpi, Manchukoku Air Industries, and Japanese-built Jungmann trainers, which Soviet forces left for them. When the Chinese Civil War ignited in 1947 Kobayashi's personnel and the new Red Chinese Air Unit, mostly Oscars and Franks, saw some action and were almost used in the big push to cross the Yangzi River that finally defeated the Nanjing Central Government of Generalissimo Jiang Zhongzheng on the mainland"

link

KI-44

"The end of the war did not see the end of service for the Ki.44. The Nationalist Chinese 18th Squadron of the 12th Fighter Group equipped with Ki-44s formerly of the 9th Sentai, which had disbanded in Nanking, and of the 29th Sentai, which had surrendered on Formosa, and these Shokis were used during the Chinese Civil War. Additionally, The People's Liberation Army Air Force was given aircraft from the 22nd and 85th Sentais, who had surrendered to the Russians in Korea. The Ki.44s were flown by the Nationalist Air Force until the last two were finally retired in the early 1950s."

link

Robert

mghFond23 Oct 2012 7:19 p.m. PST

Interesting stuff, I did not know the Reds even had an air force in their civil war. In the histories I've read and am reading it only mentions the Nationalist air force and often how ineffective they were.

Im currently painting up both sides for this massive and mostly unknown to wargamers conflict.

No planes though :)

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Oct 2012 8:24 p.m. PST

Wings Palette of course has some profiles of aircraft used,

Chinese Civil War (1945-1950)

China (Nationalists)
Curtiss-Wright CW-20/C-46/C-55 Commando
Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien/Tony
Lockheed P-38 Lightning
Mitsubishi A6M Reisen/Zeke/Zero/Rufe
North American B-25 Mitchell
North American P-51 Mustang/F-51 Cavalier
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt
de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito
Tupolev SB/B.71

China (CPR)
North American B-25 Mitchell
North American P-51 Mustang/F-51 Cavalier
Lavochkin La-9/La-11 Fritz/Fang
Petlyakov Pe-2 Buck

USSR/Russia
Lavochkin La-9/La-11 Fritz/Fang

USA
Grumman F7F Tigercat
wp.scn.ru/en/cat/wars/ww3/24

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Oct 2012 8:58 p.m. PST

And here is an excellent article on both air forces,

China and Taiwan since 1945; Part 1
By Tom Cooper

link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Oct 2012 9:08 p.m. PST

I hear ya. Not many people have heard or know of this.I may have to get some more aircraft to paint up in both Nationalist amd PLAAF markings grin. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member24 Oct 2012 11:11 a.m. PST

"On 16 September 1945 there was even an incident between the fighters of the US 7th Fleet, that penetrated the airspace over Manchuria, and Soviet fighters that intercepted them."

I wonder if this was one where the Grumman F7F Tigercat was involved? Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member27 Oct 2012 2:12 p.m. PST

"ROCAF General HQ was established in June 1946. From 1946 to 1948, during the Chinese Civil War, the ROCAF participated in combat against the People's Liberation Army engaging in air to air combat on at least eleven occasions in the areas surrounding the Taiwan Strait. The ROCAF reportedly enjoyed a 31:1 kill ratio against the PLA. GHQ was evacuated to Taiwan along with the rest of the ROC Government in April 1949 following the Communist victory in the Chinese Civil War. The ROCAF assisted in halting the PLA advance at the Battle of Kuningtou on Kinmen the same year.

The ROCAF regularly patrolled the Taiwan Straits and fought many engagements with its Communist counterpart (the PLAAF). The ROCAF received second hand equipment from the US at that time, such as the F-86 Sabrejets, F-100 and F-104."
link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member28 Oct 2012 11:29 a.m. PST

Some of the aircraft used by the Chinese look a little rough LOL. Robert

picture

"A pair of Yokosuka 'Ginga' (Milky Way) and a Zero in Republic of China Air Force (RoCAF) markings bask in the sun on a Formosan airfield in 1945. Of note are the different shades of blue visible in the Kuomintang 'white sun on blue sky' insignia and the yellow and white tail numbers, difficult to discern from b/w photographs. The aircraft out of view with a striped rudder may be a Ki-48 or possibly a Ki-45."

link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member30 Oct 2012 10:31 a.m. PST

"Aircraft which had not been destroyed by the Japanese were quickly snapped up by both the Nationalists lead Chiang Kai-shek and the Communists, under Mao Zedong. Along with aircraft, Japanese pilots who were stranded in China turned mercenary, fighting with and training pilots from both sides. Japanese aircraft would be retired fairly quickly from front line service when surplus equipment from the USA became available to the Nationalists. Japanese aircraft in Red Army service were supported a little longer, due to spares being supplied by the Russians from machines captured in Manchuria"

ERROR - no url for linkKaoschallenged Inactive Member

30 Oct 2012 2:13 p.m. PST

Hmmmm. Don't know why the URL didn't post. Robert
link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member31 Oct 2012 6:53 p.m. PST

"The Republic of China Air Force operated a small number of captured A6M's (A6M2, A6M3, A6M5s, etc.) after the war. The planes had originally been flown as part of Japan's 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th Naval Units as well as Shanghai Kokutai on the mainland. They were also flown as part of Japan's Formosan Navy units, Hao Toko, Takao, Tetshu, Kagi, Toki and Tainan Kokutai. (Taiwan had been a Japanese territory for several decades by the beginning of World War II.) A6M's were used by both sides, Nationalist and Communist, during the Chinese Civil War. The People's Liberation Army Air Force possibly provided the Soviet Union with A6M5's captured from 252 and Genzan Kokutai in Korea and Shumushu Detachment of 203 Kokutai in Kuriles.[citation needed]"

link

Etranger31 Oct 2012 8:10 p.m. PST

Robert – the green paint used by the Japanese was notoriously prone to wear & tear. (Lack of chromium in the paint IIRC). One suspects that the very weathered appearance on those aircraft is due to it being that poor quality paint. The nearest Ginga has a darker green patch on it's side in better condition, almost certainly where the original IJAF "meatball" was painted out. The Zero's marking are probably overpainted on the IJAF marking.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member02 Nov 2012 3:45 p.m. PST

Thanks Etranger.I have seen another photo of a Nationalist Ginga. Robert


"The RoCAF assigned their operational P-38 photo Lightnings to the 12th Reconnaissance Squadron and used them successfully during the Chinese Civil War. There is a personal account of training and flying the Chinese photo Lightnings by Jude BK Pao here. According to Mr Pao the Chinese took over about 50 P-38's left over by the USAAF after the war, mainly at Nanking. The 12th operated 18 F-5E and F-5G but the remainder went into storage or were cannibalised for parts. The photo Lightnings were fairly immune from interception until during one sortie in the winter months of 1947/48 when a Chinese recce pilot reported being pursued by two "very fast" single radial-engined fighters. The P-38 was eventually able to outdistance the mysterious interceptors, one of which broke away fairly early whilst the other doggedly followed for many miles but unable to gain. The first La-9 Russian fighters were not received by the Red Army of China Air Force until late 1949."

link

ptdockyard Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Nov 2012 5:27 p.m. PST

There is a P-51 in the military museum in Beijing. In so-so shape but in Communist markings (obviously). Kinda sad- I wanted to bring that girl back home.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member06 Nov 2012 2:28 p.m. PST

Communist Ki-79

picture

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member11 Nov 2012 12:51 p.m. PST

" When the Chinese Civil War ignited in 1947 Kobayashi's personnel and the new Red Chinese Air Unit, mostly Oscars and Franks, saw some action and were almost used in the big push to cross the Yangzi River that finally defeated the Nanjing Central Government of Generalissimo Jiang Zhongzheng on the mainland. On October 1st, 1949, Major Kobayashi himself, in an Oscar with the PLA star and bar 8-1 insignia, himself flew the aerobatic display over Tiananmen Square as Mao Zedong proclaimed the birth of the Peoples Republic of China. An ironic footnote to the 8 year war waged by the Japanese to rid China of both Bolshevism and Jiang's independent (of Japan that is), neoclassical Chinese nationalism."

link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member15 Nov 2012 5:07 p.m. PST

"The RoCAF assigned their operational P-38 photo Lightnings to the 12th Reconnaissance Squadron and used them successfully during the Chinese Civil War. There is a personal account of training and flying the Chinese photo Lightnings by Jude BK Pao here.
p38assn.org/pao.htm
According to Mr Pao the Chinese took over about 50 P-38's left over by the USAAF after the war, mainly at Nanking. The 12th operated 18 F-5E and F-5G but the remainder went into storage or were cannibalised for parts. The photo Lightnings were fairly immune from interception until during one sortie in the winter months of 1947/48 when a Chinese recce pilot reported being pursued by two "very fast" single radial-engined fighters. The P-38 was eventually able to outdistance the mysterious interceptors, one of which broke away fairly early whilst the other doggedly followed for many miles but unable to gain. The first La-9 Russian fighters were not received by the Red Army of China Air Force until late 1949."

link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member16 Nov 2012 8:44 p.m. PST

picture

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Nov 2012 7:12 p.m. PST

link

link

P-51 ‘Saucy Sarah', China Civil War Pilots, 1947

link

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member22 Nov 2012 9:57 p.m. PST
Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Nov 2012 2:57 p.m. PST

picture

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member24 Nov 2012 10:33 p.m. PST

Civil Air Transport (CAT)

"During the Chinese Civil War, under contract with the Chinese Nationalist government and later the Central Intelligence Agency, CAT flew supplies and ammunition into China to assist Kuomintang forces on the Chinese mainland, primarily using C-47 and C-46 aircraft. With the defeat of the Kuomintang in 1949, CAT helped to evacuate thousands of Chinese to Taiwan."

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member21 Jan 2013 1:23 p.m. PST

"The Nationalist Chinese obtained over 100 B-25C/Ds and about 131 B-25Js during the war. When the Chinese Communists won the civil war in 1948, the Nationalist fled to Taiwan, leaving behind a few Mitchells that were operated by the Communists for a time."
link

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