"1:5 or 1:10 Napoleonic rules -non skirmish?" Topic

Apart from the much maligned Chef de battalion rules are there any other suitable sets of rules for really big battalions?
I want a set of rules where the player is nothing much more than a brigadier or Colonel of a regiment where battalion guns are a neccesary part of the rules.
Any suggestions? I would write them myself but I am hopeless at rules writing! :)

Chef are the only rules I can think of close to this scale. Perhpas you could adapt General de Briagde to that scale?

Is Frappe still available? As i recall it was 1 to 10.

Second Extra Crispy's suggestion. General De Brigade. Just double unit size and distances. Viola instant 1/10 rules.

I dont mind using Chef but many would disagree! I have heard of Frappe but have never seen it I shall have to have a think about it then.
If i use GdB will that really work? I guess the units are going to last twice as long.
I shall ponder

Bill Protz and I are developing a Napoleonic variant of Batailles de l'Ancien Regime ("BAR") for 1:5 and 1:10 ratio battles in the Napoleonic Wars. The mechanical framework of the rules is similar to the SYW version, but we have added a lot of new features to differentiate it from the 18th century. For example, the cavalry vs infantry melee is completely different from BAR.

barnapoleon.blogspot.com

84 figure British regiment in line vs two 72-figure French battalions in column of divisons

The working title is "BAR Napoleon" but that will likely change when we finalize the rules and publish them. You can keep up to date on our battles and rules at our blog, titled "Campaigns in Iberia"

barnapoleon.blogspot.com

If you are interested in trying out our rules and playtesting them, then let me know and I will see if I can send copies to a limited number of play testers.

The rules are the antitheses of Chef de Battalion. They are easy to learn and the rules mechanics are rather intuitive, which gets you up the learning curve in a couple of turns.

Fire & Discipline covers the era at a 1:10 or 1:20 scale. However we never did army lists for Napoleonic Wars. Only non-European conflicts.

Years ago, there was a very short Napoleonic ruleset for that sort of figure scale in one of the old Airfix Magazine annuals.

@DAF: That looks interesting. Are you going to have rules that encourage players to maintain formed support bodies behind skirmishers?

@Skeptic: we are open to suggestions. We tend to play it that way anyway. If skirmishers get caught by a company of formed infantry, they would get waxed in a melee. So we don't want to get our skirmishers too close to enemy formed troops, not unless they have a nearby company of formed friendlies to which they can fall back upon if charged.

One of our skirmisher rules is that when you break the company (12 figures) of voltigeurs or light infantry off from the parent battalion, they are required to fire in pairs. So with 12 figures, only 6 can fire per turn. We allow the option of firing all 12 figures, but then it will take a full turn for the skirmishers to reload their weapons.

Nice DAF! I would love to have a look at the rules…..

those french columns are not at deploymnet distance from each other.

just saying.

DAF,
I'd be very interested in playtesting your BAR Napoleonics rules, if you would like a British perspective.
My email is arthur1815@yahoo.co.uk

DAF: A company of the 60th, Royal American (rifles), would be 5 or 10 figures, as such companies were actually about 50 men. How would you handle their fire? teams of 3, firing once per turn? If a 12-figure voltigeur company faces an enemy battalion in line, and can only fire 6 figures each time, how many times for the formed infantry fire?

GdeP

@GdeP: we use rifle companies of 10 to 12 figures – one could use the same number of figures and simple say that they represent two companies, rather than one. It is up to you. Since the British riflemen are in small groups, relative to the size of the regular infantry battalions, they don't have an overwhelming effect on the game.

We rely on the players to behave as gentlemen in determining their own skirmish fire. So when you get to an odd number of figures, thru attrition, just round down to determine the number of figures that can fire. So if you had 7 figures, then three of them could fire each turn and the odd figure (#7) fires every other turn.

The player can elect to fire all of the figures on the same turn, but then the squad of skirmishers would have to spend the next turn reloading. Of course, the player could have all of his skirmishers fire on the same turn, then on the next turn, have them retire behind the formed line deployed behind them. But if you did not keep your formed line close enough to the skirmish screen, then you would not be able to use this tactic.

We allow formed troops to fire every turn. I know that this doesn't appear consistent with our skirmish rules, but it keeps the skirmishers from being more powerful than they would otherwise be.

The thing is, imagine that you have a French regiment of 2 or 3 battalions. You form your battalions into columns of divisions (2 companies wide) and throw out your voltigeurs ahead of the advancing columns. That is 24 to 36 skirmishers out in front – now you have a rather impressive looking skirmish screen that calls to mind the phrase "clouds of skirmishers".

At those sort of figure representation ratios, you could use Black Powder and call each unit a company. Adjust the weapon ranges to fit and there you go.

The companies of 5/60th did not operate independently but formed part of a four or five company Brigade Light Battalion, formed by converging all of the light infantry companies in the Brigade. This made it very similar to a Portuguese Cacadores battalion with its four light companies and one rifle armed Atritadores company.

British (and therefore Portuguese) tactical doctrine was for skirmish screens to be a brigade asset, not controlled by individual battalions.

Rod

British (and therefore Portuguese) tactical doctrine was for skirmish screens to be a brigade asset, not controlled by individual battalions.

That is what we are trying to do in our games. I just didn't explain it very well. I will typically command a brigade of two regiments (it will be three once I have gotten around to actually painting them) and have 24 rifles attached to the brigade and also have the light companies (2 or 3 coys) of the line regiments available to throw out into the skirmish screen.

Check out min.us/mGZDWvNMA There is a set of free rules on there. It is not figure ratio based but a quick calculation indicated that it is around 1:10.

those french columns are not at deploymnet distance from each other.

just saying.

They would be, at a push, if the left hand battalion was right in front and the right hand battalion was left in front.

Just saying ;-)

Allan

I took some photographic license to set up and compose the picture.

Just saying

Field Marshall and Arthur1815: I've sent you e-mails just now to follow up on your request for a copy of the rules.

I am north of 70 and have a 6mm collection of Russian, French, and Prussian armies. Now i'm trying to paint a 15mm army of Russian 1812 and French 1812! My 6mm troops are based at 1:20, But I would like to base the 15's at 1:10. As I cann't find rules for 1:10 I would like to beg(!) a set of your rules to use and test. If they work like I'm hoping, I will begin to re-base my 6mm troops to 1:10; and that will be an undertaking for my and my eyes !!

My email address is wendypaulf@hotmail.comm