"Derby 2012 AAR" Topic

Today I went to Day 1 of the Derby (or thereabouts!) World Wargames at Castle Donington Exhibition Centre.

The full writeup is on my blog: link

And there are a shedload of pictures here: link

Overall it was a good day. I have some reservations about the new venue and the bring and buy but as a day out it worked pretty well for me as I got a few new toys and met up and chatted with a lot of good people.

Here's a few sample pics:

An enjoyable day!

Andy

Thanks Andy
Clif

Ecellent, thanks, I can't make the show due to injury, so it was good to see your report.

Went today (Sunday), it could have been better signposted.
There was one sign I saw that you could only read if you were already in the wrong lane and about to drive by the turning that you wanted.

I heard one guy on his mobile phone describe it to his friend as 'a cattle shed full of wargames', although this was possibly a tad harsh.

I enjoyed looking at the demo games and chatting to the traders whose wares took my eye, or fancy.

Steve J

Absolutly amazing! Thanks for sharing!

My satnav got me close to the venue, but then I was presented with a dirt track. "It can't be down there" I thought, it's supposed to be at an 'International Exhibition Centre'. There was nowhere else to go so I drove down the track for a bit, but it became increasingly less like an 'International Exhibition Centre' the more I went. So I turned round and went back. But then I spotted the tiny yellow sign on the grass verge that I'd missed first time round whilst looking for a 'proper' sign at the normal height where a sign should be. Sure enough, the 'International Exhibition Centre' was down the dirt track.

I was directed to park on a grassy area that I suspect will be a morass should it rain for a couple of days prior to any future show. Fortunately today it was quite sunny, though the grass did look a little worse for wear after Saturday's parking.

Once inside I immediately went to use the facilities and was in for another disappointment. The floor looked like that of a rugby changing room after a particularly muddy game. Clearly no-one from the 'International Exhibition Centre' had bothered to clean the place up since yesterday. This was confirmed by the fact that only one of the three paper towel dispensers had any paper left, and what there was would not last long. And this was 11.10 am. The Derby Wargame Associates are no doubt paying a lot of money to hire this place. I would feel a bit aggrieved if I was them.

The canteen facilities were OK, and I had a decent hot sandwich there. The price of a small paper cup of tea was a bit eyewatering though. And this might be the price of tea everywhere nowadays, but it still doesn't stop me feeling ripped off.

Looking round at the venue I was not impressed. Something less like an 'International Exhibition Centre' I couldn't imagine. Had it been trailed as 'The Donnington Cargo Warehouse' then I would have known what to expect and I would not have been disappointed.

It has turned out to be a shame that Derby University no longer wants our money, because their venue was plush and friendly in comparison. It had its faults, just like the old Sheffield Triples, of things being spread around several floors and rooms. You weren't always sure that you'd found everything. No such problem at the 'International Exhibition Centre', where everything is in the same shed.

I won't comment on games and traders because that's a much more individual taste thing. I got most of what I came for.

I didn't like the new venue but it won't stop me attending next year. I'll just bring my wellies for the car park and the toilets.

cheers Andy:) ….I forgot to take my camera.

Paul

went today with SappirePenguin, my wargaming wife. i only found the site as i had printed off a google map, and like deephorse was rather supprised to be directed down the cinder / gravel track by the security guard at the gate, wile i was there at 10 there were a few spaces in the tarmac car park, and was able to get in quickly and easily ( polite, helpful, and curtious front of hall staff, made us feel welome and mentioned to keep our tickets if we wanted a discount from the motorsport museum) in side the hall, well, it was grey, the shape and acoustics realy did no-one any good, the concrete floor was realy hard on the feet ( and wile i know that crete floors are hard, some seem harder than outhers). the layout wasnt the best with the demo games and bring and bye tailing off into the compation area, and the traders in "blocks" that seemed almost like they were assined by being pulled out of a hat. We both promptly fell off the wagon at Ainsty. With resin, figures, and rule books the fall was quite steep, though Andy did apreciate my "recycling" effort when i handed back a carrier bag of blisters of his that i no longer needed. After that we got some of the Amera plastic scenery, ( rivers, spring, ruined tower and factory), a MDF sci fi pod. But the feel of the place ment we didnt hang abought, round in less that an hour.
Im not certain ill go again if the venues the same next year, where as the Uni site was a location i looked forward to, evan with things split up and scatterd round a bit. ( edit for spelling)

Three of us went down together and, having been to Derby the last few years together, the new venue was a bit of a surprise. It wasn't quite as bad as first impressions but the noise did get a bit much (as it does at the EIS or any show done in a high, large space).

Can't say it really affected the quality of the show experience much for me though – I go to chat, shop and catch up with traders who have become freinds over the years. The uni was a better background for that, no doubt.

What is more worrying was that all 3 of us got feedback that traders were not doing well. Even though it was clearly stated on the website, no cash machine on site was a common complaint.

I think someone needs to look at alternatives in the area, a move may not be feasible but I think a significant number of this year's visitors & traders will have gone home with more negatives than positives.

I have posted some photographs of some of the demo/participation games on my blog.

link

I've commented on another thread.

I repeat the concerns here.

I travel to shows by public transport.

This venue is 15 minutes from the nearest bus stop. The walk there is exposed to the elements. At least it was fine yesterday. If the weather had been off it would have been most unpleasant.

The hall is a large empty barn of a place. The acoustics are terrible and not helped by the adjacent roaring of racing cars or by being under the flight path of an airport.

To be honest the only two issues I came across were the £2.00 GBP Sprite and the concrete floor. The First is most likely common to any venue/show (anyone remember what it was at the uni last year) and the second makes trainers de rigeur items of footwear, not suede desert boots, for next years show if it's the same place. Can't comment on public transport, but satnav found the place ok.

The noise didn't bother so much, consequence of middle age maybe. And the Cars racing round the track gave me a bit of a hankering to check out the track days. £115.00 GBP to throw an Aston Martin round the circuit!

As someone else said, not sure describing it as an International exhibition centre is a wise move though. Unless you add the words Tractor, Tank barn or Communist into the title.

I was surprised at having to drive up a dirt track to get to the centre – however the parking staff were helpful. Unlike the girl at the canteen who wanted to charge me a quid for cup of hot water

Highlight was playing Pony Wars in 10mm with the lads from Loughborough.

If anyone wants to win loads of games then play them because their dice rolling was pants :)

although mine wasn't much better

My write and photos here; link

Gave it 5/10. Like others, I probably give it a miss next year if it remains at the race track, unless I have some stuf I desperately need.

Thanks Free and Goose for the pics.
Good looking games.
Clif

I went yesterday and had the following observations:

Positive-
1/ Plenty of room in the aisles to move about.
2/ Lots of great demonstration games, really like the Carlist Wars one.
3/ I managed to pick up nearly everything on my list, plus a few other bits that also took my eye.
4/ Venue staff were very helpful pointing out directions to parking etc.

Negatives-
1/ Very dark and very noisy venue.
2/ Toilets were a disgrace, stank and nothing to dry your hands on.
3/ Layout seemed rather odd going from a mix of vendors and demo games, to demo games then on to the competitions. Not sure what I would have done different though, maybe had a ring of traders around the demo games and kept the competition separate.

That venue is definitely not a 'Conference Centre' in any stretch of the imagination.

Goose666 – thanks

I will be going back next year. For me and my group we found as a punter it was a lot more spacious around all the trade stalls and good lighting. On the Saturday I only had a polo shirt on but was not cold. I could imagine for the traders sat or stood still they probably felt a chill. There was big heaters built into the ceiling but these were not switched on.

On the Sunday it was a warmer day but for some reason the roof heaters were switched on.

After spending a month in London I thought drink and food prices reasonable. £1.50 GBP for a good quality coffee and £2.50 GBP for a tasty steak and Stilton pie. In London I was paying £8.00 GBP for a burger and chips at an exhibition hall.

As the venue is now in Leceistershire and midway between Derby and Nootingham it really should not be called Derby Show!

There were some punters from the local car boot sale who came to have a look.

Also entry price at £4.00 GBP for a 2 day show is a bargain and a lot less than other well known shows.

There was plenty of room around the Bring & Buy the first time I have seen that in over 20 years of visiting shows.

So for me and my group we had a great time and spent more than we did last year with the traders.

£4.00 GBP Pete.. who did you bribe.. was taken for £5.00 GBP for sat entry!

I also forgot to mention the state of the loos.. in my blog. I will agree with Pete on the fact there was lots of room in places and not quite as crowded.

Enjoyed it. Plenty of room, was in a polo shirt and jeans and wasn't cold. Food was no more expensive than any other show I've been to. Will return next year. I used the toilets once during the day and am still alive so that's a bonus. Got some cracking bargains on the day. Downside? Put some decent signage up on the roads leading in, please!

Already had my tuppence worth on another thread but to add another penneth

Who hung the yellow banner on the left hand side of the entrance at 90 degrees away from the road so that all those arriving from the M1 couldn't see it until they'd driven past (like me)? rated -
Toilets rated about the same as some motorway services I can think of, just be thankful it wasn't held in July and 85 degrees outside folks!! rated ok
Acoustics pretty bad, especially if you have tinnitus like me. Lots of repeating went on. rated -
Some of you obviously don't travel the country much if you thought the food and drink was pricey! My friend thought his bacon butty was excellent. Seemed a lot easier to find a seat to eat on Sunday unlike when it was at the Uni. rated +
Bring n Buy was easier to walk round, not in a cramped boiling hot room full of sweaty wargamers all shoving to get to the front of a 3 deep mass whilst dodging rucksack wearers. rated +
My friend thought that with all the space available the Bring n Buy could have been run like Vapnartak instead with tables for hire. He would have preferred that.
Overall I thought it ok.
Perhaps Loughboro or another Uni like Nottm could be approached to see if they would hold it instead though?

It seems some of the food wasn't so expensive. I just felt a bit ripped off for my veggie sausages! And the Sprite! I didn't dare ask what a pint cost and was glad I was driving!

I agree the B&B was less cramped (depth of bodies) but the stuff on the tables seemed VERY messy in places and stuff WAS getting damaged. If there is that amount of space available maybe the York tabletop idea might be a goer?

I'd like to see the show at a better venue next year but I do appreciate finding one ain't easy. I will go wherever to buy toys and meet mates! :)

But I will take sandwiches next year and wellies and air freshener for the loos!

Andy

I think a lot of the choice of venue has to come down to cost besides availability and suitability, and better venues could mean higher entrance fees. I presume there must have been a poll on here at some time asking how high a price you would pay to get into a show, and the higher the price the more people grumble. You only have to think back to Sheffield and the complaints about having to pay to park! to compare and contrast with yesterday I went to the Brisca World F1 stock car finals weekend at Skegness recently. £2.00 GBP per night to park your car in a stubble field with deep tramlines, £15.00 GBP entry Friday night, £30.00 GBP Saturday night, an extra £12.00 GBP if you wanted a seat in the temporary stands, no chairs allowed to be brought in, nor food and drink. All food and drink was as expensive as yesterday but less choice. The toilets were either portaloos or standard oval racing affairs, bar prices the same unless you smuggled booze in, no roof or heating, and a 40 min queue to get out the car park at midnight. That made yesterday a bargain in my eyes really.

Didn't get to Derby this year so can't comment on the new venue. But for Vollyfire, a few years ago we enquired at Nottingham University about hiring the conference centre for a show in case we lost Kelham Hall for Partizan and were quoted £10,000.00 GBP for the day. That is simply not practical for any wargames show outside of perhaps Salute in London.

I'm surprised by the comments about being cold – it must have depended where you were in the hall: apart from shopping/socialising/comfort breaks, I was on the Society of Ancients stand all weekend in a polo shirt and didn't feel the need to put my jacket on (which just sat on the back of a chair).

Additionally, I would go with what Scrivs said …

I'll get some pictures up on the Shows North blog in the next day or so, but the balance will be positive enough: the organisers must complain to the venue about the state and (zero) maintenance of the toilets (which was unacceptable and just slack management on the part of Donnington Park*).

Phil

*in a way, the same could be said for the catering – top 'exploit the venue' prices … no different from the Royal Armouries and many a sporting venue … but below the standard that these days goes with those prices: poor staff training, and poor management is how that happens.

I'm not surprised Tricks with Nottm Uni quoting that kind of price. Mind you though,it does sound pretty steep to me, almost as if they quoted a silly price because they didn't want you, but if you had said 'We'll take it!' they would have rubbed their hands together anyway and taken you for mugs (or desperate) possibly?
I spoke to one of the Partizan crew this year and asked why you never moved to the Newark Showground and I believe the reply was along the same lines, too expensive.

I've just put up some pics and thoughts from our end of things: link

The reason we never moved Partizan to the Showground was not because of money but because there is only one fairly small decent pavilion up there. The rest of the place is very cold concrete floored hangers and workshops which are fine for autojumbles but are no good for wargames shows. I spent way too many days up there freezing cold even in summer to ever consider of moving the show there.

If Derby Uni is off the list again next year (Im amazed they dont need the money) Loughborough Uni would be an excellent location, and there used to be an annual wargames event there before it moved to Manchester. Good space for games and traders, excellent bars and reasonable food prices, lots of parking, excellent public transport and very manageable space for the B&B.

Worth considering given the number of folks who seem to have reservations re CD.